Forum Replies Created
As pointed out above Leica has gotten themselves into quite a jam with the delay of the CS lenses . If they provide the previously agreed upon trade in ..they will get a flood of new orders for the CS lenses . Would a good guess be one or two CS lenses for every S2 body sold? (this would also make the CS lenses essentially unavailable to any new buyer of an S body ).
At the same time they would have a similar flow of used S lenses hit the market . Trade in prices would exceed FMV by 20-30% (based on my review of recent sales on ebay ) . Consider also that the greatest need and demand would be professionals ..that typically would have used the lenses pretty hard .
Granted this is a problem caused by problems with the CS lenses and over promising by Leica . Stings if the CS lenses were part of your buying decision . Has to hard on David and Josh .
This looks like a Lose Lose Lose situation even with the best intentions .
David
I can t argue with the challenges to producing retina enabled images for general consumption . Both you and diglloyd have outlined many issues . These are from the perspective of providing content . My view is of course primarily from a consumer of content ..but I want to be able to show my work as well.
My POV is that the results can be better . Since we are spending significant $$$$ to produce the very best image quality , I can t follow any logic that limits the quality of my output . The tools are getting better and soon we will be working with retina enabled Adobe products .
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the market .
David
I separate the work flow issues from the display . My focus is on the display as my work flow can be adjusted to a desktop environment with a large screen that displays near 100% RGB etc .
The retina display is how photographers will view my work . As I understand it the retina displays use 4 individual sites for every pixel displayed (I may be off in my understanding of the technology ) . The quality and depth in the images has nothing to do with the maximum pixels displayed . The NEC display has far more pixels than the MacBook retina and doesn t hold a candle to the amount of detail or the impression of a quality image .
Please read diglloyds description and view the NYT on a iPad thru the iPad application …this is far more effective than my rambling . If you are viewing something on a retina that wasn t designed for it ..you aren t seeing the retina display potential . Diglloyd has before and afters on his free blog . Toggle back and forth .
David
While I understand the issue ….the results I have seen on any retina aware application are nothing short of amazing and frankly blow away the NEC display . (for rendering of fine detail ..but I get the RGB issue ).
I have the NEC display you speak of ,the new MBP retina and the iPad retina . Each requires a different file specification to be optimized . I have always been surprised by the lack of attention to output for the web . We capture using the best equipment ,process with great attention to detail and then push out 600×400 files for display ? The NYT application for the iPad is optimized and if you go back to the Olympics ..you can find images that exceed anything I ve seen on a screen .
Go to diglloyd s website and see his display of test images . You make a selection of what type of screen you are using . If nothing else you can see the difference in the result. He also has several articles on using the retina display and speaks to the issues you raise .
Some of the software is already Retina enabled ..Aperture ,DxO and Adobe is in process. But clearly most display software is not there yet and may never get there .
I think it will be a while before we will see Retina screens used for critical color managed work flows (I looked for this at the PhotoPlus Show ) ..so the NEC is here to stay . But for viewing web content I look at the iPad and the MBP retina as both the standard and the future .
Thats my testing location for all my equipment. During the season I visit this pier 3-4 times a week ..its 2 miles from my Jupiter home .
Looks great I miss being in Florida .
Josh advice is what you should do. NJ adds. Weeks to the processdue to shipping and customs.
Pete
Very nice report . Looks like you are enjoying yourself ..I am jealous !
David
So the sensor is the same (formerly Kodak ) CCD ? This is good and bad …the IQ should match the near perfect S2 (no problem in interchanging bodies on a shoot) but it also limits the possible improvement in high ISO to what can be accomplished with NR either in the camera or in post .
Did I also understand that they established the base ISO at a lower point ? This is what the landscape guys complain about as the S2 base appears to have some amplification and they want to get to the pure sensor potential .
I understand that the sensor board and firmware affect ISO performance but they don t appear to alter the base level performance of the sensor .
Jono
I know you have been happy with the 180 on the smaller OMD. I will not know until I try it . My expectation is that the 135APO M will finally have a method that works with the M . The 180 not sure yet . I did not get comfortable with the 135 on the NEX 7 .
Al
I know that 180 3.4 APO well ..it was my bread and butter lens for a long time . I went with the 180 2.8 67MM (pre APO) to get the close focus and faster focusing (for tennis) (even though the 3.4 was better at longer distances ). Generally with the M I am not looking for a larger image but rather to gain reach . (like shooting around the water ). The 3.4 is pretty bad with the extenders .the new 2.8apo is great . Will take some sorting out .
Does the new S have a new sensor (of the same size CCD) ? I don t remember it being called a low noise CCD ?
Bob Moore;3125 wrote: Of course you are right Roger…great warranty pricing.
Discount your present S2 and factor in the upgrade cost…you may end up paying quite a bit for the new S2.005 warranty. Probably a better deal for a new buyer.
The camera has been fairly problem free for me…hard to see where I will spend the upgrade costs for repair.
Wishful thinking? Hope not….
Bob
The simple math was $21K verse FMV of my S2 $10K+$5K warranty . So an upgrade cost is about $6K when you factor in the warranty . I was expecting a difference of well over $10K . This looks like a winner by my economics . or the option is self insure and keep the S2 .
Maybe this will help justify the upgrade;)
The current Leica warranty on the S2 is one year and additional years are $1700+ . So 3 years of warranty has a value of $5100 . I would also expect that (1)looking at the introductions from Phase and HB and (2) the much better availability of S lenses (with an option to use the HB H glass) makes the S more attractive .
I really like what they did here…hand clap .
My understanding is that the sensor is made by the european specialty producer and not Sony . So there is hope .
The 180ApO is an interesting option but I fear too big to balance on the M body . The newest 180/2.8 APO is one of my favorite lenses and I carried the DMR just to use it . It pairs perfectly with the 1.4XAPO extender . That is a combination I could really enjoy . I was actually thinking though that the older 180/3.4 APO (slower focus etc) might balance better .
The real benefit for classical M shooting will be the higher ISO performance. I have been working on this for about a year with all kinds of gear and have concluded that you need 1600-3200 with the quality you get from an M9 at 640 ..so thats 1 1/2 + . The current DSLR are all pretty good at 1600. (CMOS/FF).
I predict few surprises .
M10 ….will be CMOS probably 24MP ….all that CMOS brings …live view,video,EVF attachment ,better high ISO . Evolution of battery,screen,buffer and card speeds to near current standards . Preservation of classic RF solution . Availability not until 03/12 to allow for more field testing and production ramp up .
S3….small upgrades to S2 ..same 40MP CCD sensor same body,battery ,processor …evolution covering most requested pro features . Insufficient to stimulate significant trading out of the S2 . Great camera evolving .
NO Leica EVIL camera ..maybe a discussion prototype .
No really new S glass ..just introduction of the 24 and the zoom plus the CS lenses . Important rounding out of lens line .
M will get the 28/1.4asph .
Plenty of improvements in the details but only the M10 will be a surprise.
Still its a super impressive line of equipment and just the M10 will carry the buzz.
Really exceptional work ! Well deserved that its was published by Paris Match . Thank you for sharing this .
David Just checking to see if you reading these . Roger
