Member peytonhoge

Leica is delivering M10s, and has been since January. The issue is one of maximum production versus demand. The M10 is a hand-made product. It takes time to assemble, calibrate and test. As such, they can only make a limited amount per day. On the flip side, the demand is massive. Leica can't just make 50,000 cameras in one go. If history is a guide, meeting the initial M10 demand will most likely take another 6-8 months.

I appreciate that this post is 2 years old. I recently reactivated my membership here and was looking for information on lenses where the AF motor fail occurred. I have two lenses, one that failed and one that has not and is 4.5 years old. I am in Australia and repairs through the national distributor go to Wetzlar of course. I was considering the preemptive service, based on what I understood to be a new warranty period afterwards, as mentioned here.

My 70CS had the AF fail and was repaired free of charge, Six months later the central shutter failed. I had to pay for that repair and the advice from Wetzlar was that the warranty only covered the AF motor fault. It does not cover any other faults.
That makes paying for the preemptive fix much less attractive in my eyes

Amazed with your reviews, David!

Honestly, I just didn't think to use ISO 50. There is not much of a real-world quality difference between ISO 50 – 400. Some theorize that ISO 50 is actually a PULL setting and that the SL has a base ISO of 100. But…. I haven't received official confirmation of this.

Funny you should mention this…. I had the same thought, so repeated the test with the same setup, tripod, etc. with the 50 APO on the M10. Same result. Besides slight color differences between the SL and M10 files, the detail level was exactly the same.

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. I will need to ask the SL team at Leica about this next time we chat.

I agree that the 50 Summilux-SL is one of the best 50mm lenses Leica has ever produced, and would add that it's AF is infinitely better than the 50 APO-Summicron-M. 🙂

In all seriousness, though, I have also found the 50 SL's AF speed to be lacking, especially when compared to the lightening quick AF of the 24-90 and 90-280. It's not a fault of the SL's AF system. Rather, the fault lies in the massive glass elements inside the lens that take considerably more energy to move than the feather-light tiny focus elements in the zooms. The zooms were built for speed. The 50 SL? The priority was on absolute best image performance at a much wider aperture. Wider than the zooms. And wider than the 50 APO for the M. Take a look at the test shots and 100% crops. The 50 SL actually resolves more detail at f/1.4 than the 50 APO does at f/2. That is no small feat. One that, unfortunately, requires large and heavy lens elements to achieve.

While the speed isn't great, I have found the AF to be deadly accurate. And with razor-thin depth of field at f/1.4, I wouldn't call this level of accuracy and repeatability to be antiquated. Or the ability to select focus anywhere in the frame.

So, yes, the 50 SL represents a compromise. Are you willing to accept slower AF for higher optical quality? Some photographers will be. Others won't.

Karl,

I compared the 50 f/1.4 SL to the 50 f/1.4 M and the 50 f/2 APO. The 50 f/2 APO SL isn't available yet. It will certainly be interesting to see how the upcoming Summicron-SL will compare to the Summilux-SL.

The difference in quality with the 50 SL would be significant. The SL lenses are the best that Leica has ever produced.

No M10 🙁

Hey all, I am not sure what I'm doing wrong, but when I log into Leica's members area I can't seem to find any Lightroom plugin download at all . Can anyone help please ?

Jeff, thanks for catching that! Fixed.

Thanks David, great review. Really nice to see the dynamic range and ability to pull out shadows when needed. Also nice to see the 10,000 iso shots come out with great color and so smooth. – David Knoble

Great review David,
I'm in a bind right now maybe you can make a recommendation.
I am all in with Leica having the M262, SL and a S006.
I was thinking about upgrading my S006 to the S007, yet with everything I have read as of recent it seems that Leica is abandoning the S system, with the issues with the S lenses AF motor issues and now with the X1D and Fuji GFX.

I love my SL and would love to upgrade to the M10 also. My delima is what to do with my S006, I love the S but was wondering if it's time to trade in my S system for a M10
I realize they are totally different systems, yet for the days I don't want to shoot my SL and want to shoot a RF I like the idea of the M10 with it's new sensor, better color and DR.
Thanks

Hi There David
I really enjoyed that – great writeup and pictures. I also really enjoyed your interview with Jesko and Stefan. . . and of course meeting up again at Wetzlar. Hopefully we'll meet up again before too long.

With all best wishes
Jono Slack

incisive and comprehensive….
great job as usual!
Albert

Thanks, Danny. The optical viewfinder in the M10 is the best Leica's ever put into an M camera. You are more than welcome to use the viewfinder.

The advantages of the EVF are more precise framing (WYSIWYG), accurate exposure preview and the ability to zoom to 100% to aid in manual focus. Additionally, the Visoflex 020 for the M10 also confers GPS functionality for geotagging your photos. The great thing about the M10 is you can use a combination of both, which is exactly what I did when testing.

Yep, I had the camera set to Auto WB the whole time.

The M10's auto white balance algorithm is excellent, even under mixed and challenging lighting.

I'd have to check to see if additional lenses were added. My main point for improved 6-bit coding was to say that if you had a manual code selected for a non-6-bit coded lens then changed to a modern 6-bit lens, the camera will automatically assign the correct profile even though you might have forgotten to change from Manual to Auto.

Sorry. The oldest 50 Cron in the manual selection menu is a version III, model 11817, introduced in 1969. Honestly, I don't think the lens corrections would be much different between this and a version II.

Excellent review David, all pertinent and to the point !!! Much appreciated.

Have been able to shoot the M-10 enough to agree with all the information written, it is one sweet camera, hope to be getting a spare once there are readily available !!! Thanks

al

Nice job as usual , glad you included lots of low light shots which most reviews never carry

Best review I've read on this camera, I have a follow up question, the saturation of the colours is amazing, did you use any filters or do any post work?

I used the 35 Cron ASPH for many years before moving to the 35 Lux FLE. Both are wonderful lenses. The Cron has a little more pop, with higher contrast and more saturated colors. The bokeh is pleasing and natural. The only shortcoming of the 35 Cron ASPH is that is prone to flare under the right conditions.

The 35 Lux FLE is stunning. I love the way the lens handles direct light. It is incredibly sharp wide open, with lovely bokeh. The lower contrast of the lens lends itself to higher contrast lighting situations. The Lux has no drawbacks that I have found. It is my desert island lens and the one that I most often shoot with when I want to just have one camera, one lens on my shoulder.

So while the 35 Cron is a great lens, the 35 Lux is just that much better. If you can swing it, I'd go for the Lux.

Hi David

Reads like an end-game version of the digital M has arrived — almost!

I would really like an M with just one frameline per lens. Is there some reason why Leica do not do this and do you think they ever will?

Thanks

Robert

Thanks for the feedback.

Tips for getting colors like these: use a Leica 😉 All kidding aside, Leica doesn't get the credit they deserve for the color science in their digital cameras. Doesn't look fake, flat or overdone. The resulting look is like real life, but the better version.

The M10 has a usable ISO 10,000. The M9 tops out around 1,000. So, about a 3.5 stop advantage.

The Visoflex is also very useful with anything shorter than a 28 mm and anything longer than 50 mm. Also nice to use with extra-wide-aperture lenses (f2 and below) to check precise focusing.

David,
An incredibly through interview.
You touched on some items that I had not gleaned from other reviews.
Glad you asked about the eventual mono.
Thank you.

Very nice interview, with lots of information. I hope this answers many people's questions about EVF, touch screen, video etc. I'm glad that although they are listening to their customers, they are trying to keep the M close to the original philosophy as much as possible.

Fred,

For many M users, the M10 is the penultimate digital M, the one they've been waiting and dreaming of since the M8. Leica took user feedback into account when designing the M10. The top request was for a thinner body, with the same dimensions as a film M, and they delivered. Second most requested was an improvement in low light capability. The M10 shoots cleanly at ISO 10,000 with great color, where the M240 topped out at ISO 3200. For most users, lower noise, better color and increased dynamic range trump pure pixel count.

The M10 also has a significantly improved optical viewfinder, a direct ISO dial, reduction in UI clutter, improved LV functionality, faster processing speed and frame rate. All around, the M10 is a natural evolution from the M240. It has a slightly smaller battery, but also more power efficient processing. On the M240, I carried two extra batteries for a full day of heavy shooting. I do the same with the M10.

The omission of video wasn't due to heat. If this was the case, Live View would have been eliminated, as reading out for LV puts the same demands on the sensor and heat dissipation mechanisms. Video was taken out because the vast majority of M users didn't want it there. They complained vehemently of video ruining the pure M experience on the M240, and such an incredibly small percentage of M users ever used it. The concept of the M10 was to get back to basics, the essentials. Not marketing schpiel, but rather a company-wide mantra. Every product manager strives to this standard.

I'm not saying that some users didn't appreciate video, or tethering via the multifunction grip, but Leica responded to the 90%+ of users who flat-out rejected these features as un-M-like. For those who want to tether or shoot pro level 4K video, and have the option to use M lenses, Leica offers the exceptional SL. This is the idea. M10 for the purists. SL for those requiring a professional feature set.

I'd recommend checking out my full review on the M10 here. It's a fantastic camera to shoot with and the image quality is phenomenal. And, yes, I'm ok with 24MP, both on the M10 and SL. A 6um pixel size allows for stopping down to f/11 before hitting diffraction, and I have a stack of 24×36 inch prints that look incredible from nose-in-print distance. If the need arises, you can certainly print bigger and maintain gallery quality output, but again, most M shooters don't want or need to print this large. Will Leica ever increase the pixel count? Maybe, but only if there they can do so with no sacrifice in image quality, DR, low light ability or edge-to-edge performance.

Go out and shoot with the M10 and you'll see that the M is far from dead. Quite the contrary, actually.

wonderful event and superbly reported… as usual!
Albert

Good work Josh,
My review of all the reviews suggests this iteration of the M is getting universal acclaim.
My favorite part is that it is available now, not in 12 months. I like the ISO dial. All these little changes appear to really add to the appeal.
Jack

Thanks Josh, well written and succinct. Always exciting to hear of a new M.

You're not crazy at all. The SL is fantastic. Have you read our full review of the SL?

Leica SL (Typ 601) – A Professional Mirrorless Camera

Yeah, S lenses would probably look immense on the TL. The crop factor calculation is the same as any other lens. So, a 35 S lens would behave the same way a 35 TL lens or 35 M lens would on the TL sensor, roughly equating to a 50mm FOV.

I was somewhat saddened to learn that I bought the T system a camera that was discountinued which I found out totally by accident from a friend who called me to buy the same camera, since I had touted the camera with so many accolades. I'm so glad that Leica has developed a newer model with the new features on the TL.

My ultimate plan is to create a book of my incredible summer with my Leica T…now if I can trade up all will be forgiven 🙂

That is correct. The TL has a 1.5X crop factor relative to full frame 35mm.