Member Mark Gowin

I don't think so. The SL was only introduced 18 months ago as a brand new system, and the lens line is still being developed. The Q is six months older and shows no signs of being replaced. Fact is, Leica's product cycles are longer now. Four years passed between the M240 and the M10. And, in many ways, the SL is still more advanced than the just-launched M10. From an image quality perspective, performance of the SL and the M10 are extremely similar. Leica has also been diligent about rolling out regular firmware updates for the SL to continually improve the performance and user experience. Bottom line: this is not an end of life product. Rather, it is Leica's current standard-bearer. Based on other product cycles, I wouldn't expect to see a replacement in anything less than 18-24 months. And a lot of new SL glass will be rolling out in that timeframe, further bolstering the system.

Mainly, I think the price adjustment is aimed at achieving global price harmonization.

The SL is doing well, especially for a new system. Leica just wants to accelerate this process and make it more competitive to attract those outside the Leica universe.

To your point about the lens selection, the SL is actually able to accept many more lenses than an M camera. These are:

• SL autofocus native lenses, which are some of the very best optics Leica is offering right now
• TL autofocus lenses, which only cover APS-C, but are perfect for 4K video projects
• S autofocus lenses with adapter
• R lenses with adapter
• M lenses with adapter
• PL mount cine lenses with adapter
• Nikon AF and MF lenses with adapter
• Canon AF lenses with adapter

So, quite a few lenses. By my rough count, more than 300 options.

As far as being outdated in two years time, take a look at the M9. The M9 was introduced eight years ago and has an very loyal following, still producing incredible images. Digital cameras don't get worse with age. They produce the same quality as they did they day they were manufactured. The SL is extremely quick in operation. I can't see myself needing anything faster than 11 fps. Heck, I only use single shot. At 24 megapixels, the files are large enough to produce stunning 30×40 inch prints. It shoots in low light up to ISO 6,400 with extraordinary quality. And, the 4.4 MP EVF rivals an optical finder. So, for me, I'd say the investment in an SL is much more than a two-year deal. I shot plenty of film before reluctantly transitioning to digital just a little more than 10 years ago. And while film has a certain look and nostalgia for me, I can't see going back. The quality and flexibility of the SL is so far beyond what I ever was able to achieve with film.

Digital has come a long way since Jim's passing. I'd like to think he would have heartily embraced the M Monochrom.

Great article.thank you so much for all the info.one thing I noticed with the electronic shutter when I set it to always on my shutter button does not work.it works fine in off and extended.

Jesse, that is something we plan on doing in a future post, it just requires more testing than we had time for. The SL's auto focus has been improved with every major firmware update and 3.0 is no exception!

Thank you for this comment, I actually added a new section to the post about this change. Take a look!

Steve, to shoot a DNG only on the SL, you want to go to Photo File Format which is near the top of the Camera menu (one of the first settings you'll see when you bring up the menu). Then you can select DNG!

Josh Well done ! I am impressed that our discussions actually made it into this firmware release . No time to test it this week ..but soon I will give you some feedback onAF tracking ….

Devin, from my testing here I do not see a difference in the behavior of the spot metering function in Manual mode whether Exposure Preview is set to PAS or PASM. The only difference I see with Manual mode is that in PASM, if you set your exposure manually, the live view will reflect that exposure even without the shutter half pressed. More testing is needed!

Devin, I'll take a look at your awesome chart, thanks!

Steve, I'm not sure what you mean. On the SL, if you shoot DNG only (by selecting DNG in the Photo File Format menu), there is no JPEG file created at all. Are you seeing something different?

Josh, is there a way to turn off the joystick / focus point grid on the display other than a half press on the shutter?

Josh, exactly what is “extended mode” for the electronic shutter?

Josh, please disregard the joystick / AF focus point question. I just remembered how to turn it off.

Josh, on the right bottom corner of the live view screen there is a number which changes when the shutter button is half pressed. That number on my SL is 5K. When the shutter button is half pressed it changes to something that looks like L 33 . What are these numbers? I can't find any reference to this in the manual. The screen images in the manual are all 633 or 634.

Scott, a 64GB SD card would be SDXC. I've always found SDHC (cards 32GB or smaller) to be a bit faster, in general. Interesting about the electronic shutter being a bit faster. I'll have to check that here too!

There is no new firmware for the TL lenses in SL firmware 3.0, only for the SL 24-90mm and 90-280mm. And yes the lens firmware update does take quite a while!

Arthur, I cannot speak for other Leica stores but at Leica Store Miami we always offer to update the firmware of new SL's that our customers purchase before we deliver them if they so choose. In regards to the AF tracking for video, it has been improved but we usually use manual focus for our video production so we have not test the video AF improvements extensively yet.

Arthur, while you can of course acquire the SL anywhere you like, I do want to mention that when you shop with Leica Store Miami, that does support our efforts here at Red Dot Forum to do the kind of testing our readers appreciate. You are also welcome to email me anytime with additional questions at josh@leicastoremiami.com.

Les,

If you enter playback mode on the SL and cycle through the info display (lower right button), you'll see the picture's file name in the upper right corner. Ex – L1003310

Hope this helps.

Leica is delivering M10s, and has been since January. The issue is one of maximum production versus demand. The M10 is a hand-made product. It takes time to assemble, calibrate and test. As such, they can only make a limited amount per day. On the flip side, the demand is massive. Leica can't just make 50,000 cameras in one go. If history is a guide, meeting the initial M10 demand will most likely take another 6-8 months.

I appreciate that this post is 2 years old. I recently reactivated my membership here and was looking for information on lenses where the AF motor fail occurred. I have two lenses, one that failed and one that has not and is 4.5 years old. I am in Australia and repairs through the national distributor go to Wetzlar of course. I was considering the preemptive service, based on what I understood to be a new warranty period afterwards, as mentioned here.

My 70CS had the AF fail and was repaired free of charge, Six months later the central shutter failed. I had to pay for that repair and the advice from Wetzlar was that the warranty only covered the AF motor fault. It does not cover any other faults.
That makes paying for the preemptive fix much less attractive in my eyes

Amazed with your reviews, David!

Honestly, I just didn't think to use ISO 50. There is not much of a real-world quality difference between ISO 50 – 400. Some theorize that ISO 50 is actually a PULL setting and that the SL has a base ISO of 100. But…. I haven't received official confirmation of this.

Funny you should mention this…. I had the same thought, so repeated the test with the same setup, tripod, etc. with the 50 APO on the M10. Same result. Besides slight color differences between the SL and M10 files, the detail level was exactly the same.

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. I will need to ask the SL team at Leica about this next time we chat.

I agree that the 50 Summilux-SL is one of the best 50mm lenses Leica has ever produced, and would add that it's AF is infinitely better than the 50 APO-Summicron-M. 🙂

In all seriousness, though, I have also found the 50 SL's AF speed to be lacking, especially when compared to the lightening quick AF of the 24-90 and 90-280. It's not a fault of the SL's AF system. Rather, the fault lies in the massive glass elements inside the lens that take considerably more energy to move than the feather-light tiny focus elements in the zooms. The zooms were built for speed. The 50 SL? The priority was on absolute best image performance at a much wider aperture. Wider than the zooms. And wider than the 50 APO for the M. Take a look at the test shots and 100% crops. The 50 SL actually resolves more detail at f/1.4 than the 50 APO does at f/2. That is no small feat. One that, unfortunately, requires large and heavy lens elements to achieve.

While the speed isn't great, I have found the AF to be deadly accurate. And with razor-thin depth of field at f/1.4, I wouldn't call this level of accuracy and repeatability to be antiquated. Or the ability to select focus anywhere in the frame.

So, yes, the 50 SL represents a compromise. Are you willing to accept slower AF for higher optical quality? Some photographers will be. Others won't.

Karl,

I compared the 50 f/1.4 SL to the 50 f/1.4 M and the 50 f/2 APO. The 50 f/2 APO SL isn't available yet. It will certainly be interesting to see how the upcoming Summicron-SL will compare to the Summilux-SL.

The difference in quality with the 50 SL would be significant. The SL lenses are the best that Leica has ever produced.

No M10 🙁

Hey all, I am not sure what I'm doing wrong, but when I log into Leica's members area I can't seem to find any Lightroom plugin download at all . Can anyone help please ?

Jeff, thanks for catching that! Fixed.

Thanks David, great review. Really nice to see the dynamic range and ability to pull out shadows when needed. Also nice to see the 10,000 iso shots come out with great color and so smooth. – David Knoble

Great review David,
I'm in a bind right now maybe you can make a recommendation.
I am all in with Leica having the M262, SL and a S006.
I was thinking about upgrading my S006 to the S007, yet with everything I have read as of recent it seems that Leica is abandoning the S system, with the issues with the S lenses AF motor issues and now with the X1D and Fuji GFX.

I love my SL and would love to upgrade to the M10 also. My delima is what to do with my S006, I love the S but was wondering if it's time to trade in my S system for a M10
I realize they are totally different systems, yet for the days I don't want to shoot my SL and want to shoot a RF I like the idea of the M10 with it's new sensor, better color and DR.
Thanks

Hi There David
I really enjoyed that – great writeup and pictures. I also really enjoyed your interview with Jesko and Stefan. . . and of course meeting up again at Wetzlar. Hopefully we'll meet up again before too long.

With all best wishes
Jono Slack

incisive and comprehensive….
great job as usual!
Albert

Thanks, Danny. The optical viewfinder in the M10 is the best Leica's ever put into an M camera. You are more than welcome to use the viewfinder.

The advantages of the EVF are more precise framing (WYSIWYG), accurate exposure preview and the ability to zoom to 100% to aid in manual focus. Additionally, the Visoflex 020 for the M10 also confers GPS functionality for geotagging your photos. The great thing about the M10 is you can use a combination of both, which is exactly what I did when testing.

Yep, I had the camera set to Auto WB the whole time.

The M10's auto white balance algorithm is excellent, even under mixed and challenging lighting.

I'd have to check to see if additional lenses were added. My main point for improved 6-bit coding was to say that if you had a manual code selected for a non-6-bit coded lens then changed to a modern 6-bit lens, the camera will automatically assign the correct profile even though you might have forgotten to change from Manual to Auto.

Sorry. The oldest 50 Cron in the manual selection menu is a version III, model 11817, introduced in 1969. Honestly, I don't think the lens corrections would be much different between this and a version II.

Excellent review David, all pertinent and to the point !!! Much appreciated.

Have been able to shoot the M-10 enough to agree with all the information written, it is one sweet camera, hope to be getting a spare once there are readily available !!! Thanks

al

Nice job as usual , glad you included lots of low light shots which most reviews never carry

Best review I've read on this camera, I have a follow up question, the saturation of the colours is amazing, did you use any filters or do any post work?

I used the 35 Cron ASPH for many years before moving to the 35 Lux FLE. Both are wonderful lenses. The Cron has a little more pop, with higher contrast and more saturated colors. The bokeh is pleasing and natural. The only shortcoming of the 35 Cron ASPH is that is prone to flare under the right conditions.

The 35 Lux FLE is stunning. I love the way the lens handles direct light. It is incredibly sharp wide open, with lovely bokeh. The lower contrast of the lens lends itself to higher contrast lighting situations. The Lux has no drawbacks that I have found. It is my desert island lens and the one that I most often shoot with when I want to just have one camera, one lens on my shoulder.

So while the 35 Cron is a great lens, the 35 Lux is just that much better. If you can swing it, I'd go for the Lux.

Hi David

Reads like an end-game version of the digital M has arrived — almost!

I would really like an M with just one frameline per lens. Is there some reason why Leica do not do this and do you think they ever will?

Thanks

Robert

Thanks for the feedback.

Tips for getting colors like these: use a Leica 😉 All kidding aside, Leica doesn't get the credit they deserve for the color science in their digital cameras. Doesn't look fake, flat or overdone. The resulting look is like real life, but the better version.

The M10 has a usable ISO 10,000. The M9 tops out around 1,000. So, about a 3.5 stop advantage.

The Visoflex is also very useful with anything shorter than a 28 mm and anything longer than 50 mm. Also nice to use with extra-wide-aperture lenses (f2 and below) to check precise focusing.

David,
An incredibly through interview.
You touched on some items that I had not gleaned from other reviews.
Glad you asked about the eventual mono.
Thank you.

Very nice interview, with lots of information. I hope this answers many people's questions about EVF, touch screen, video etc. I'm glad that although they are listening to their customers, they are trying to keep the M close to the original philosophy as much as possible.

Fred,

For many M users, the M10 is the penultimate digital M, the one they've been waiting and dreaming of since the M8. Leica took user feedback into account when designing the M10. The top request was for a thinner body, with the same dimensions as a film M, and they delivered. Second most requested was an improvement in low light capability. The M10 shoots cleanly at ISO 10,000 with great color, where the M240 topped out at ISO 3200. For most users, lower noise, better color and increased dynamic range trump pure pixel count.

The M10 also has a significantly improved optical viewfinder, a direct ISO dial, reduction in UI clutter, improved LV functionality, faster processing speed and frame rate. All around, the M10 is a natural evolution from the M240. It has a slightly smaller battery, but also more power efficient processing. On the M240, I carried two extra batteries for a full day of heavy shooting. I do the same with the M10.

The omission of video wasn't due to heat. If this was the case, Live View would have been eliminated, as reading out for LV puts the same demands on the sensor and heat dissipation mechanisms. Video was taken out because the vast majority of M users didn't want it there. They complained vehemently of video ruining the pure M experience on the M240, and such an incredibly small percentage of M users ever used it. The concept of the M10 was to get back to basics, the essentials. Not marketing schpiel, but rather a company-wide mantra. Every product manager strives to this standard.

I'm not saying that some users didn't appreciate video, or tethering via the multifunction grip, but Leica responded to the 90%+ of users who flat-out rejected these features as un-M-like. For those who want to tether or shoot pro level 4K video, and have the option to use M lenses, Leica offers the exceptional SL. This is the idea. M10 for the purists. SL for those requiring a professional feature set.

I'd recommend checking out my full review on the M10 here. It's a fantastic camera to shoot with and the image quality is phenomenal. And, yes, I'm ok with 24MP, both on the M10 and SL. A 6um pixel size allows for stopping down to f/11 before hitting diffraction, and I have a stack of 24×36 inch prints that look incredible from nose-in-print distance. If the need arises, you can certainly print bigger and maintain gallery quality output, but again, most M shooters don't want or need to print this large. Will Leica ever increase the pixel count? Maybe, but only if there they can do so with no sacrifice in image quality, DR, low light ability or edge-to-edge performance.

Go out and shoot with the M10 and you'll see that the M is far from dead. Quite the contrary, actually.