Forum Replies Created
You have perfectly described why you need both : -)
-Marc
B&H Joe,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/605593-REG/Kirk_AG_1_AG_1_Action_Grip_for.html
You'll need a ARCA type quick release plate in the camera … or the dual lug ARCA version available on the Camadapter site.
-Marc
Personally moving shot for me. Thank you for posting this.
Not long ago, my Father was buried in a similar place with full military honors … the Great Lakes National Memorial Cemetery. When we were driving through this massive place to the point of ceremony, every single military person along the way snapped to attention and saluted as we passed.
He was a WW-II Tail-Gunner in the Pacific Theatre … at the ripe old age of 18. His name was Carl Robert Williams, least we forget that all these brave people had names, and were individuals.
He went on to become a Fire-Fighter for the City of Detroit, and provided for 6 children.
A heroic life without complaint, or expectation of accolades. The attention at the funeral would have embarrassed him.
Tough act to follow.
Christmas is a bit empty without him.
-Marc
Oops! Sorry.
I posted the wrong link for the Really Right Stuff solution, here's the correct one.
http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=B87-QR
-Marc
Just curious, why a little ring-light?
Ring-lights produce flat results, flat as a pancake.
Big Ring-light strobes produce a shadowless effect often used for fashion, but for macro I've never understood the concept of dead-on flat light (except maybe for scientific recording where art, or modeling the shape of the subject, isn't the objective.)
Here's an alternative to consider:
Add an extension arm, get any two small speed-lights to mount on the arms,
and get a double split Y sync cord that plugs into the S2's sync port:http://www.paramountcords.com/Ycords.asp
Way more creative control of the lighting effects.
-Marc
stephan;1500 wrote: what i really need is a more intuitive way to select the ISO-setting
and another suggestion (even if probably complicated to implement):
I need a limitiation of the focus-range for the 120 macro. As the lens don't have such a limitiation, it screws all the way through the focal range, which takes much time. So a limitation from 2-5 m for example would be nice (for portraiture, for example)
Why not just manually focus to the near range and then go from there? That's what I do.
-Marc
Sorry, it seems like a lame excuse regarding the finer ISO selections.
The M8 has the same ones as the S2, then the M9 added more, making the M9 much easier to refine metering while adding the least amount of noise possible for each exposure need.
-Marc
vintola;1441 wrote: Fotografz, I didn't find the answer about the handstrap. I am probably going to buy S2 and very interested about this handstrap. Is it Leica's or some third parties strap? – vintola –
It is a Camdapter handstrap:
I use one on each different camera I have. They come in basic black leather as shown on my S2 above, or a choice of some fun finishes (I use a Python Grey one on my Hasselblad H camera, which is also grey :-).
The base I use is the Arca Neoprene Adapter … a Quick-Release base plate that fits an Arca QR system. It has a “dual Lug” design that allows you to have a hand strap AND a shoulder strap. The Arca base allows use on any Arca based tripod or Mono-Pod head.
If you use a Really Right Stuff lever clamp for your QR, then the one to use is the Arca Plus Adapter.
Also available in Standard and Manfroto base plates.
-Marc
stephan;1450 wrote: well, yes
but let it put into another perspective: One of the S2 selling arguments is the ease of use and weather sealing.
Unluckily, I work in the norther hemisphère, where light is going off qulickly in the evening. Also, I love to shoot in dark places, just yesterday in a cosy Café, where you cannot bring big flashes and other stuff. Also, I'm not that kind of fan of ultra thin sharpnes aeras, which I consider to be a special effect that wears out quickly. This said, an eventual High iso S3 would be highly apreciated.
Regarding the strobes, of course buying a lot of SF58 will be a waste of money, but in my opinion strobes can be very effective if used correctly. With the use of radios, combined with a seconik 758 DR, some older powerfull flashes in manual mode, eventually combined with some portable lightformers, can do wonders and are light and easy to transport. And this is a relatively inexpensive solution. Which can be combined with some other, more powerfull studio flashes.
All those attributes make the S2 more versatile and usable for different shooting conditions. The lighting notion only serves to expand those capabilities so you can wring even more value out of this big a$$ed purchase.
However, as I mentioned in a previous post, people seem compelled to collapse all situations into one camera which IMO has not successfully happened to date.
I also live in an area that promises Moscow grey skies for 5 months straight and sundown at 4:30PM (thanks to daylight savings time). When I trek out to my “Cozy Cafe” it's generally with a different tool in hand. I'd also welcome a higher ISO performance from the S2 just as long as the other end of the chart isn't effected in any way at all. Personally, I'd rather a stop more ISO from my “Cosy Cafe” M9 camera : -)
No disagreement on the use of speed-lights, they most certainly can be used effectively in limited situations … and for the most part are pretty easy to transport. My compromise to expand the possibilities a bit more has been a Elinchrom Quadra which is pretty tiny, needs no separate radio system units except the sender, and has heads that are smaller than a speed-light … but puts out more light into a softbox than 5 SF58s, or 3 potato mashers could. So, it depends on applications and expectations. To me, it's like fast aperture lenses verse slow ones … You can dial less from one, but not dial more from the other when you need it.
My 2¢
-Marc
To add to what David said … we all choke at the price of S lenses … but they were also made from the ground up to perform on a high resolution digital camera and will remain so for a very long time.
In comparison, the lenses for both the Hasselblad H and Phase One cameras have had to be upgraded to keep pace with improved digital sensors. So the older lenses become outdated and you have to buy the same lens all over again. I just did that with the HC50-II and HC150N and probably should do the same with the HC120-II macro … and many are re-buying lenses for their newer Phase One systems by moving to the new Schneider M mount lenses and Mamiya D optics.
I also think that the more we use the S2 the better the results will get. There is more in this box than most of us can pull out of it … yet.
-Marc
stephan;1435 wrote: so true!
I'm courious to hear what you suggest as solution for an available-light-look-alike lighting for the S2
Knowledge is the solution.
True understanding of the qualities of available light before you try to mimic it. For a simple example: if you want to mimic a portrait taken near a large north light picture window, the strobe's light modifier has to be big like the widow is. I have a 5′ X 7′ Plume Wafer soft box that is almost the same size as the picture window in my studio. It has an internal graduated baffle diffuser that evens the light spread … and an optional outer diffuser that produces more of the North light look (indirect/wrap-around light quality).
A firm grasp on what subjects you intend photographing using artificial lighting. Lighting a food still life requires different tools than lighting an extreme motorcycle stunt, shot against the sun, and frozen during mid-jump … and a portrait or character study require yet a different set of lighting tools. Sounds remedial, but many people actually don't understand this and buy the wrong tools for the wrong reasons.
Probably the most important aspect of artificial lighting is the directional quality. On-camera lighting is flat and generally ugly unless used as minor fill, (where the ambient light is still the key light and provides the directional quality that creates the illusion of dimensionally on a 2D surface.) When lighting is employed as the key light, you control the directionality and don't depend on the time-of-day or whether there is any quality ambient available at all. I live in Michigan, and I won't see any quality ambient for the next 5 months … LOL! So the lighting tools come out and the S2 keeps going.
Lack of Knowledge has led to some very odd ways of trying to use artificial lighting. chief among these is the attempt to use speed-lights like studio strobes. IMO, this is like bringing a pea-shooter to a gun fight. Not to mention that it punishes the crap out of people's very expensive speed-lights. Various reports place a speed-light's maximum out-put at 70 to 90 w/s, so as I mentioned earlier, to equal a typical 500 w/s mono-light's full output, you'd need 6 SF58 speed-lights clustered in one light modifier at a cost of $650 ea. or $3,900 total … not counting the radio triggers needed (and certainly not counting that you can't even put 6 speed-lights in a typical soft-box anyway).
Obviously an exaggeration since you can buy cheaper speed-lights. However, in comparison, a Profoto D1 air kit with two 500 w/s monos (1,000 w/s total, equal to 12 SF58s!), including Air remote trigger that lets you increase/decrease the level of light right from the camera position is $2,380 … you do the math.
Even I was surprised when shooting some tethered table top with the S120. I pulled the ISO to 80 and had to stop down quite a bit to gain DOF … in the process, I maxed out my Profoto D4 2400 w/s generator with modified light. Some things take more light than you can possible imagine until you try it.
Modifiers for speed-lights are very limited where those for Strobes are vast and diverse … which is why it is important to have a knowledgable guide when first starting out … so you don't over-buy, or buy the wrong tools.
None of this is meant to trump available light … when it is there, and the quality is good, it is hard to beat Mother Nature at her best. Instead, it is meant to expand the utility of such an expensive tool as the S2 … a specific tool that really sings when coupled with strobes … even Leica professionally positions this camera as a Fashion/Glamor tool even though we all use it for much more than that. Most fashion/Glamor shooters utilize strobes.
To me, lighting has future proofed my S2 far better than what a S3 may bring to the party … at least for the subjects I tend to shoot.
-Marc
David K;1418 wrote: I've come to the same conclusion regarding the impact of good lighting (which includes the proper selection of modifiers, gels, etc.). I'm fortunate to have a friend who's top notch in this regard and has helped me along the way. It's not an easy thing to learn on your own. And lighting can get pretty expensive pretty quickly…
Ain't that the truth. This whole subject is a pet peeve of mine.
I have spend many months now tutoring a fellow S2 shooter about studio and location lighting. At first he was going the all speed-light route so popular today … which I quickly corrected when I found out what he was going to be shooting … the 5 or 6 SF58s he was going to buy would have been a monumental waste of money. Even if possible to do, all 6 together in a soft box would not have over-come the sun, nor equalled the output of a single 600 w/s light, let alone a 1200 w/s one
Basically, why spend $50K+ on a sophisticated camera like the S2, and the get miserly on the lighting? Makes absolutely zero sense to me. Lighting vastly expands the applications of a camera like the S2 well beyond available light work … but most people associate it with over-flashed, poor speed-light work and think it isn't for them … or they are afraid of it … which is a shame.
The trick is to have someone that knows what they are doing guide you, even if you have to pay them … and I don't necessarily mean a sales person … I mean an accomplished photographer like David mentions above.
Lighting is a black hole that you can pour money into forever, and mis-steps can be very costly and frustrating. Get it right, and it is a lifetime tool you can use with all your cameras and any you'll get later. Over-come any fear or ignorance, and a whole new world of photography opens up for you … and doesn't matter if it's nice outside or not … LOL!
-Marc
GMB;1415 wrote: Dear all,
First of all, a big THANK YOU for the very helpful advice and your time. I very much appreciate that.
I have played around with the S2 and the SF58 this weekend, using David's advice of manual setting, and was quite pleased with the results. Will try next weekend with even lower shutter speeds. Also, I am about to order the Garry Feng diffuser and this should improve matters even further. So I am planning to use the S2 as my prime camera (shooting will be mostly indoors–the weather in Brussels in early December is unlikely inviting for outdoor shooting). I am using the system nor since February and feel reasonable comfortable, but will keep things simple.
I will also take the M9 with a 50 lux and a 35 or 28 cron, as these lenses for me produces the best comprise between speed and focusing. I probably leave at home the 75 lux or the 50 f1, as I am likely to miss too many shots–less than perfect eyesight and bad light do not go together well. (OTOH, some shots may look good even if a bit soft).
The main objective of the shooting will be to capture a few shots of the ceremony, and then candids during reception, lunch, and the party, something I feel quite comfortable shooting. And I am not the only shooter anyway.
As regards razor sharpness, the good thing is that this time the bride wears a beard :D.
Again, many thanks for the helpful advice!
Georg
Georg, my advice based on a lot of experience would be to be careful with the Fong diffuser. The SF58 will constantly flop forward due to the weight of that diffuser and it likes to fall off at the most inopportune times. Plus, it really wastes a lot of light by scattering it all over the place including behind you … okay in very tight quarters, but wasteful otherwise. You can add accessories to throw more light forward, but it adds even more weight to the unit.
With the S2 you cannot afford to waste any light from the SF58.
A couple of additional considerations:
The Metz bounce for shooting landscape oriented group shots that I mentioned above:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/706726-REG/Metz_MZ_58235_Bounce_Diffuser.html
And for general shooting indoors with Tungsten lighting where you just tilt the flash head at 45º and shoot. It helps with the color balance issue using daylight flash in a Tungsten environment … not great for long distance shots, but excellent at normal and close distances like at a reception and dancing shots.
Personally, I find all these to be compromises for shooting people and now use a 12″ softbox on my SF58 when ever I can … either directly on-camera, or using a Nikon cord and Lowel grip to provide directional quality to the light:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/621560-REG/Interfit_STR104_STR104_Strobies_White_Interior.html
Speaking of off-camera … that is the single most productive thing you can do creatively … I frequently use a radio controlled set-up with the SF58 set on A, and shoot one-handed which requires the use of a hand-strap. (see attached).
Not trying to get complicated, just sharing alternative thoughts beyond just the OPs request, just in case anyone is interested in the possibilities with the Lighting and the S2,
-Marc
Mark Gowin;1409 wrote: The S2 and associated lenses are very expensive no doubt about it. I fully expect the S2 to be replaced with an S3 (or whatever they call it) and at that time the S2 will be worth considerably less. However, the S2 will still function the same and be capable of the same exceptional IQ. If or when I decide to replace the S2 it will be voluntary. That was part of my rationalization when I bought the S2 and lenses over a year ago.
Personally, I think that is the right approach, and basically what I meant in my post above.
Digital has introduced a new mental illness where we try to think ahead so much we don't think about now. That was probably warranted when digital was first introduced and was wanting in many areas … but now it is so good on so many fronts that worrying about what could be can be a fool's errand.
I also think that nothing has changed from the days of film where a photographer usually had 2 or 3 systems that specialized in certain types of work: 35mm, Medium Format, and maybe a rangefinder or some small camera. What has changed is the attempt to do everything with one camera system … be it a S2, or some high performance 35mm DSLR …. which is understandable given the price tag. However, that price tag isn't that bad if one kept the tools rather than changing them over and over and over. Loss in value of anything is predicated on selling it. If you hold onto it you lose nothing.
I feel the same way as Mark about all of my current cameras, especially the Leica M9 and S2 … if I move to a M10 or a S3 it will strictly be a voluntary move, and not one I feel overly compelled to do, especially at those price points. If I move from my current Sony A900 kit, it will be strictly out of boredom, since no 35mm DSLR has even come close to producing IQ like these Leicas.
Currently, I am way more into lighting, since that seems to make a much larger difference in the work than incrementally adding more of this or that to some digital box, especially a box like the S2 which is a light vampire just like most other MFD cameras. … not to mention that lighting is very challenging creatively.
-Marc
I AM a wedding photographer and use a M9, S2 and a Sony A900. I try to not “herd” people or “machine gun” them … LOL!
Advising you isn't easy because I don't know where this is, or what timings you will be facing at this wedding. Outdoors/indoors, all indoors, big venue or small, very low light, big group shots or more casual and intimate? And whether you have any other camera to use besides the S2? (I'm NOT assuming you have a M9 and fast M optics).
Using the SF58 isn't much different from using any flash system on-camera.
The technique described by David is called “dragging the shutter”, meaning you can lower the shutter speed in dark conditions like indoors at a reception to capture more ambient background.
This is possible because the foreground subject is being primarily lit by the flash, and the very short duration of the burst freezes the subject … up to a point. A good starting place in dark conditions is all manual camera and TTL/HSS flash “dragging the shutter” is ISO 640, 1/50th using the 35mm @ f/4.
If you are not using one, I suggest adding a simple bounce diffuser like the Lumiquest version made for Metz flashes (B&H). You don't need this as much outdoors, but indoors it broadens and softens the light thrown forward while bouncing some light off the ceilings. Personally, I shoot the S2 with off-camera strobe and the SF58 in the hot-shoe for fill.
BTW, if faced with very dark conditions, the main issue won't be just flash, it'll be focusing the M9 or S2 on rapidly moving subjects.
Hopefully, you can do any group shots with the S2 outdoors in a shady area, or in a brightly lit area indoors … and use the SF58 for fill. If I can also suggest, remember to use the location as part of your images … the subjects need not fill the frame, especially with the S2.
Or if they fill the frame, use the location as a meaningful prop … the group shot in front of the barn below was important to the Bride because it was a bird sanctuary she volunteered at.
Also, while the S2 optics are indeed retina slicing sharp, the lighting will play a much larger role in rendering complexions … go for soft light … and if the light is good both in quality and direction just shoot available light.
Lastly, look for ideas that stand out and are a bit different for the ordinary … it is easy to get caught up in the flurry and forget this.
