Forum Replies Created
Doug;3904 wrote: Thank you, Marc, for the clarifying info; pretty tricky technology there! This live video feed is from the camera viewfinder, then, not off the sensor? Or with a device used instead of the back?
Actually, it has nothing to do with the viewfinder Doug. It is the back tethered to a computer using Phocus software. This is why the back can be used on a tech or studio view camera without the Hasselblad camera at all. Hasselblad doesn't call it “Live View” … it is “Live Video.”
In reality, I don't find it terribly useful on the H camera. In most cases, you can just shoot, adjust focus using the +/- software focus adjustments, and zero in on critical focus … just like you can with the S2. This is where the capture speed to full res is most important.
We have to realize that the S2 is a relatively young system. Imacon, then Hasselblad has been at this for quite some time … and for most of that time the concentration has been on tethered studio operation … if you want to experience some really amazing tethered operation you should see the Phocus Software take total control a 200 meg Multi-Shot back.
-Marc
Doug;3890 wrote: That's because the S2 does not have “live view”, which to implement would require a different sensor.
Hasselblad does not have “Live View” in the way you are thinking of it Doug. The sensor is not the issue …both the S2/S and Hassey backs use CCD sensors. I think you are referencing Live View as implemented on CMOS sensor cameras which is an in-camera function.
The “Live View” of the Hasselblad is actually a tethered live video feed in B&W, and used mostly for critical focusing and immediate composition adjustment. The refresh rate is no where near that of the CMOS based Live View and is useful mostly for still life studio work.
I use the Hasselblad/Phocus “Live View” once in a while for more difficult focusing situations, like focusing when using the HTS/1.5 Tilt Shift unit, or when the back is mounted to a full movements view camera … both of which are hard to critically focus by eye at the camera.
BTW, the Hassey solution also allows focusing by ear … it produces a frequency feed-back audio and a live frequency graph. We used this once with a 39 Multi-Shot back to check a Schneider 120 Macro view lens on a Rollie Xact-2 that needed micro shims to acquire critical focus.
Different animals really.
-Marc
I'm with Josh on this one.
For a similar field-of-view to what you use now, the S70/2.5 ASPH and S120/2.5 APO macro would seem to be ideal. These are lenses optimized for this camera system.
Both lenses offer a very bright viewfinder experience due to the relatively fast maximum aperture for Medium Format lenses … especially the 120 macro which is the fastest production macro I know of. Plus, like many Leica lenses, they are stellar performers even when shot wide open.
All the best,
-Marc
Good to know that your lenses are “clicking” also … it works and that's all that counts.
I can attest to the IQ of the newer HC-50-II … it is a great focal length field-of-view on the S camera and fills the gap between the S35 or 30 and S70.
-Marc
I'll preface the following with how much I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the S2!
However, for pro works I think Leica will have to address this tethered issue sooner, if not later in the next iteration of the S camera. At least USB3, preferably Thunderbolt because by then it will be more ubiquitous.
One really needs to be on set with paid models, grips, and lighting techs … or food prep people and mere seconds to get the fresh look … compounded by clients breathing down your neck … to really grasp the importance of tethered shooting/and fast review … including zoom checks of focus.
IMO, the Leica Shuttle isn't the answer … unless they add the functionality found in Hasselblad's Phocus, Phase One's C1 Pro, or even pokey LightRoom … which I seriously doubt, but I'll wait and see.
I think two things are happening … 1) As mentioned, and I can confirm, LR4 is slower. Adobe recently added tethered shooting for Hasselblad H cameras with FW800 tether, and compared to Phocus it is snail slow … 2) I do not buy that USB2 is not a bottle neck IF one needs to zoom check at resolution. In the process of shooting tethered, one often shoots in bursts, and very often it is the last few shots that are of most interest … waiting for an eternity for those to fully load is unacceptable and breaks the creative rhythm of a shoot.
I have to make a decision whether to upgrade the S2 to the S, or upgrade my H4D/60 to a H5D/200 M/S. Can't do both, and may do neither. IMO, the S can just about equal the H/50 camera for single shot so that's a wash. MS adds something no one can equal: perfect color fidelity and zero moiré. Right now, I'm leaning to the H solution, and one of the prime reasons is tethered shooting in the studio. I had really, really hoped the new S would have offered USB3. Comparatively speaking, with the right Graphics Card and Phocus, the H promises to be much faster to use in studio and location work …. with clients and all that … especially using WiFi transfer of images to an iPad.
-Marc
Thanks guys! I admit to being on a crusade regarding working with lights and the S2. Or, I should say, explore the possibilities with a tool that is more than qualified.
While is certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea, it can expand usage of this wonderful tool and open up the creative possibilities more fully.
The trick is using just enough and no more. Sometimes that means just a little puff of fill … and at other times taking total control of the lighting when there is little to no ambient or the quality of the ambient is poor … and in the case of the S2's leaf shutter option, to use lighting when there is waaaaay too much ambient!
Case in point … this bride wanted her wedding party photos at the same lake park we did her engagement session. I figured out where the sun would be at the time of day we had to shoot, and knew that lighting was the only solution, or I'd be in for a heap of trouble.
So I brought the S2 and Hasselblad HC-50-II leaf-shutter lens used @ 1/750 shutter sync … the lighting was the Profoto 600B @ full power fitted with an Elinchrom 39″ Rotalux Deep Octa. This silver interior Octa acts like a virtual “Magnum” reflector when all of the diffusers are stripped off … in effect increasing the light delivered over a distance. Even at full power it was barely enough … 1200W/s would have been correct … or the equivalent of 14 SF58s!
Here is the result … Nicely exposed background with sun-burst sky, back-lit/rim lit subjects with enough fill to make them visible rather than silhouetted. It was printed on an 18″ wide wedding album spread. At full resolution, the detail is stunning with every face clear.
-Marc
Below is how I most frequently use an off-camera KEY light, and a speed-light for fill:
The SF58 can be used directly in the hot-shoe and kept in HSS-TTL mode if you connect a radio sender via a sync cord to the S2's PC outlet on the side of the camera.
To accommodate this I place the S2 on a Kirk grip that has a 1/4″ tread on top of the handle and then mount the radio sender there.
Then it doesn't matter what off-camera light you use … a speed-light or strobe.
However, for the S2 I highly recommend a more powerful strobe. The S2 loves light, the more the better. This allows you to use a lower ISO and retain the quality of the lush large sensor. BTW, do not be mis-lead by the so called “Strobist” movement for 35mm DSLRs. These cameras frequently have much higher ISOs to work with compared to the S2 or any other Medium Format camera.
The above will become even more important if you move to any of the Leaf Shutter lenses from Leica or Hasselblad … and access all of the lighting options and advantages the S2 provides.
A Speed-light like the SF58 produces about 80W/s of lighting and are much harder to modify effectively. A strobe is far more powerful, produces a much better quality of light, and modifiers for almost any application are available. Keep in mind that the bigger the modifier the better the quality of light, but that comes at a cost in diminished light reaching the subject … sometimes to the point that even a full power speed-light is wimpy and ineffective.
I use two different battery powered strobe kits, depending on application. A 400W/s Elinchrom Quadra Lithium kit, and a Profoto Acute B 600W/s AIR. (I also have a 1200W/s Hensel Porty, but that's a bigger kit for use with assistants to help).
The Quadra is extremely small with strobe heads smaller than a speed-light … yet is able to put out 4 to 5 times the light of an SF-58 that is set to full power manual. 4 or 5 SF58s cost more than one Quadra kit, and putting all those speed-lights in one modifier is ridiculous.
The other nice thing is you can control the levels of the Quadra light from the camera using their Skyport radio transmitter.
Here are a few examples of off-camera lighting:
The Kiss shot shows my assistant's image using just on camera flash, and my shot using on-camera for fill and a second radio triggered speed-light behind the couple. Big difference.
The Sculpture shot was done in dead-dark conditions … the only ambient was from the windows behind them. I used the S2 with SF58 in the hot-shoe set to HSS-TTL for fill, and the off-camera light was the Profoto 600B AIR/Profoto gold Octa-box, triggered by the on-grip AIR radio transmitter to provide directional KEY light from camera right position … which had to be back behind me quite a bit to light the tall sculpture … distance requires more lighting power.
The dance sequence of the Bride, was on camera TTL using with the Profoto AIR radio triggering the off-camera directional light behind and to the right of the subjects. What is good about using TTL on-camera is that all you need to do is get the KEY light exposure correct, and the TTL will do the rest for fill.
The last shot of the Bride and flower girls was the S2 using a Hasselblad 100mm leaf-shutter lens @ 1/750 shutter to control the brightly lit background and pool, while the SF58 in the hot shoe provided fill to nicely balance it out. My assistant's shot of the same thing using her Canon all featured a completely blown background when the subjects were exposed properly … all of which I deleted.
Hope this helps a bit,
-Marc
I'm back!
Okay, here is a demo of using the Phottix Stratos-II Nikon Transmitter in the S2 hot-shoe with a SF-58 set to A then mounted on top of the Stratos-II. Plus another SF-58 off-camera set to A mounted on a Stratos-II Nikon Receiver that's in the SF-58 supplied stand-foot.
Top image shows the on-camera SF-58 shut off to evaluate the off-camera light … then the bottom shot shows the on-camera SF-58 turned on to provide the over-all lighting … I've found this to be much faster than having everything set to manual.
The second photo shows use of different brands of flash … the captions explain it.
In fact, if you use another brand of camera, like Nikon, Canon or Sony … that is the Phottix Stratos-II configuration to get. The bonus is that when used with the other camera, you CAN set the on-camera speed-light to TTL and the Stratos-II will pass through the TTL data, and keep the on-camera flash TTL … very helpful for fill when using a strong off-camera directional light.
But wait … there's more … even better solutions involving the S2 and SF-58!
I'll be back : -)
-Marc
If I may offer a few suggestions:
Forget about using the SF58 in slave mode. It is an inferred trigger and quite unreliable like most line-of-sight flash trigger systems (which is why Canon has finally brought out a self-contained radio based speed-light system).
Not to mention what a huge trial-and-error PITA it is to balance out speed-lights set on manual.
A simple solution is to get a Phottix Stratos-II Transmitter/Receiver set for Nikon. The Stratos-II transmitter mounts in the camera's hot shoe,and the on-camera flash goes in the hot shoe on top of the transmitter … no sync cords. Same for the receiver, the second off-camera SF58 goes in the top hot-shoe, and the base of the receiver can mount on the SF58 accessory stand, or it has a standard 1/4″ receptacle for mounting on a light-stand or spigot with 1/4″ thread.
You set both SF58 speed-lights to A and it works. Set both flashes to the ISO you are working with, adjust your f/stop for proper exposure, or adjust +/- compensation. Alternatively, you can just set the ratio you want by setting the ISO on the flashes for an effective 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, and so on.
Being a radio based system, the Phottix is super reliable and will fire a great distance, or if the off-camera flash(es) are behind the subject, or even in another room! I also use the Sony mount Phottix Stratos-II to shoot weddings … which even allows pass-through TTL for the Sony HVL58 on-camera Speed-Light. They are tough as nails, and not once have they failed to fire.
FYI, you do not need a SF58 … in the hot-shoe, or off-camera. Any speed-light with an A setting will work. I use a much better Sunpak 120J bare-bulb speed-light for my S2 off-camera light … which takes any Quantium light modifier … and there are a number of excellent light mods for the bare bulb configuration used by the Sunpak, Quantum, Hassey D40, etc.
BUT WAIT … there are even better solutions for off-camera lighting!
I'll be back in an hour or so to discuss them.
-Marc
So, where does one find these vouchers? Link please?
-Marc
Roger, I understand your ideas as being thoughtful suggestions.
I do NOT think for a moment that this offer should extend to lenses bought used. The incentive was intended to stimulate new sales of the S2 and what lenses existed … not everything, forever.
This concept isn't new. The MFD makers have done it for some time. Buy the current camera and pay the difference when the new one is available. They usually set the price for the “difference” and have a set time limit for the Promotion. If the newer camera is late in arriving, they then extend the dead-line for the promo.
IMO, it is strictly a marketing ploy 101 to keep people interested in the newer product, and as such is not the responsibility of the customer to implement.
Timing of the exchange could be rather simple … once the CS lenses are in production and can be shipped, place a defined cut off date to ask for the updated CS versions of your lens bought new and base the priority off the original purchase date.
Clearly communicate the above to registered owners of the S2.
-Marc
Leica cannot make this their customer's problem. It is their problem, and they should solve it. If they wanted to limit the time-line, then they should have clearly and concisely done it up front, not after the fact.
I bought the S2 primarily because it was a dual shutter camera. In effect, that selling feature has not been usable for the entire time I've owned the system. Only recently have I used the H to S adapter for high-speed sync mode on the S2 … for a mere $2,000 premium.
However, how many S2 users are also H users like me? If I didn't already have the HC lenses, I seriously doubt I'd buy them just to use high-speed sync on the S2 unless absolutely necessary for my work (which, for me it is). BTW, the difference between 1/750th and 1/1/000th sync is not much in actual practice … plus I'm wondering if the new S with an 1/800 shutter speed setting will also sync the H lenses at 1/800?. Bet it will.
Then there is the “voucher” … which, as a registered S2 owner I was NEVER told about by Leica … only recently reading about it here on Red Dot. WTF!
I want to convert my 35, 70, and 120 to CS versions … and am satisfied with the HC/HCD for 24, 28, 50, 100 and 150 CS/FP focal lengths … none of which Leica offers. BTW, the HC50-II is particularly good on the S2 and provides a much desired approx 35mm focal length field-of-view.
-Marc
It would be either/or only for financial reasons.
After using both for some more diverse shooting environments, I find the file qualities to be quite similar … so images from one don't stick out like a sore thumb when viewed together … which I cannot say about any of the other cameras I use, or my assistants use (Sony, Nikon, Canon and a few others). IQ synergy is an important attribute share between both cameras.
The actual shooting experience and subject approach are very different between the two systems IMO … and I am not talking about size differences which are obvious.
A rangefinder is all about content at the expense of almost everything else. What the photo is about and the geometry of framing … that's it. No DOF, effect of the focal length, possible flare, or any other subject related feedback while shooting. It is a more direct contact with the subject.
The S2 is all about feedback just like any DSLR. The relationship between the user and the subject can, and often is, more complex. It thrusts more decisions about what the image will look like than a rangefinder … which is valuable in some cases, and not in others.
I do not use one to replace the other. They are singularly distinct tools. While either can be used for something like street work (and I've experimentally used both this way) … the M is far more suited to the task than the S2 in almost every way. Same for shooting in close quarters, or event work which I do a fair amount of.
The S2 steps up to the challenges the M is less suited to or not able to do at all. I never use the M in studio or with lighting, especially outdoors when faced with challenging ambient where the S2 in the CS mode comes to the rescue.
I'm shooting an 11 hour wedding tomorrow that affords the opportunity to use both systems for their strengths with little concern of their shortcomings … yet the file qualities will look as if one camera were used.
-Marc
Thanks Mark, RE: difficulties …
Never let them see you sweat … LOL!
What is also so gratifying about using these tools is the remarkably consistent look and feel attainable between the S2 and M9P … while I also use a Sony A900 and Zeiss optics, as well as process images from my second shooter's Nikons or Canons, none have that synergy … that certain richness that is easy to see and hard to explain.
My hope is that the M and S functionally evolve to a point I can eliminate all the other cameras … and we are getting close. I hope the new M with CMOS maintains that image synergy.
Me likey Leica
-Marc
Arif, I just use LR and the lens profiles Leica provided for the HC lenses.
In the case of the HC100/2.2 when strong backlighting is present (like it was in the Bride and flower-girls photo) I may have to use a bit more manual purple fringing correction. This shows up more frequently with the S2 than with my H4D/60.
Mostly process for skin-tones by eye. The S2 tends toward more magenta skin so I frequently use the specific color correction tools in LR to make minor adjustments until the skin looks like the above pics.
What specifically are you having problems with?
-Marc
