Forum Replies Created
Update:
Fiddling with the set-up, I pressed the two outer buttons to reset the SF58 … but held them down … reset flashed 3 times and then went out. I was then able to see TTL-HSS in the menu selection and select it.
Sounds good until I saw that the lens f/stop was still not matching that of the camera nor the ISO, so everything grossly over-exposed. Removed the flash, replaced it again and it reverted to the original problem … no TTL-HHS in the menu, and trying the reset technique didn't work again … reset flashed two times instead of three and went out, no TTL-HSS.
Of course, this all has to happen just as I prep for this season of paying work where I use the SF58 in TTL-HSS for on-camera fill when working with mobile Profoto Strobes.
Frankly, I'm reaching the end of my rope with Leica and their electronic bugs. This camera has been back to Leica so many times I should have signed it up for a frequent flier miles program. I was about to sell off my Sony A900 but may rethink that since in the 5 years it's been my work-horse it has been to service exactly zero times. Zero.
I've put up with it because the S2P is truly a great camera with the best lenses available … but come on, I need to count on the darned thing … and it isn't as if it's been over used or has many shots on it. Other than the new firmware possibility I've speculated on, there is no apparent reason for this to have happened. None.
Grrrrr.
– Marc
Thanks for looking David.
You've written that your S2P firmware is version 1.0.4.2.
The newest S2 firmware version (which I had loaded around December or January) is listed on the Leica site as: update version 1.3.0.0
V1.3.0.0 is listed as adding support for the 45/2.8 (CS) that I am trying out. So I confirmed what firmware was in my S2-P.
I had not used the SF58 since installing the new firmware a few months ago, but prior to that the SF58s worked perfectly with the older firmware.
So, the only variable in use of the camera has been installing the new firmware. The camera wasn't used with the SF58 since the new firmware.
I just put in a fully charged S battery, reset the S2P to factory basics, used different CF and SD cards, all to no avail.
I'm a bit concerned that since not many folks use hot-shoe based flash, that this may be a firmware issue with v1.3.0.0 that hasn't been reported yet.
So I am trying to confirm that someone with the newest 1.3.0.0 firmware installed can use their SF58 normally and TTL-HSS is available, with the correct ISO and lens zoom settings transferred from the camera to the SF58.David, the odd thing is that the SF58 now works in TTL … if I recall correctly, it wouldn't even fire unless it was set to TTL-HSS (right?). If I manually input the correct ISO and zoom settings on the SF58, it shoots TTL in either FP or CS mode.
Someone elsewhere mentioned that there is a new firmware version for the SF58 which reads v2 bottom right corner when you turn on the flash … both my SF58s read v1.1. If there is one, where the heck do you get an update for the SF58?
(BTW, all is working perfectly with Profoto B-600/D-1 AIR strobes and AIR transmitter in the hot-shoe).
– Marc
Thanks for answering David.
Yes, I know it is supposed to only work on TTL-HSS … and that is the way it worked before.
Suddenly, TTL-HSS is not available at all in the SF58 selection menu, but TTL is there … then, the camera and flash will fire in just TTL up to 1/4000 in CS mode and up to 1/125 in FP mode.
The problem seems to be that the flash/camera are not communicating … so if I set ISO 320 on the camera the flash remains on default ISO 100.
I can go in and manually set the ISO on the flash, and it'll properly expose in TTL.
I have two SF58s that act the same way.
I tried resetting the flashes. Nope.
Cleaned the contacts. Nope.
The ONLY difference is that I loaded the new S2 firmware and now the flash operation is screwed up.
I cannot find any info on flash operation, nor any reference to any firmware update for the SF58s.
Yes, I can set A, but it should work the way it was designed.
Further thoughts?
– Marc
45CS delivered today. Jeeze, this stuff is just so beautifully made. Never ceases to amaze me.
Can't wait to press it into service.
– Marc
I wouldn't hold my breath for a new M monochrome based on the M240 camera that sports a CCD sensor. But, hey, ya never know : -)
As a follow up, I have a CS45 mm winging its way to me to try out. I suspect that focal length will be my “one lens” walk about since 35mm focal length is what I favor on a M or any other 35mm camera.
It may be a bit close to my CS35, but we'll see. I may have to sell the 35 and replace it with a CS30. The 24 and zoom are a no go for me … all the lenses have to be CS versions.
Still have the S 006 in the back of my mind : -)
– Marc
Thanks again Tom.
I haven't had much issue with AF hunting, except with the 120 which has a longer throw due to being a Macro. I usually manually focus that lens.
I agree that life is too short to speculate on what may be. In this case I'd rather call it pre-planning because I'm getting up there in age, and moves made now are ones I'll probably have to live with financially for a good amount of time.
After all this excellent common sense advice and thoughts on the subject, I'm inclined to stay the course with my S2P … as you say, I love the results, and they are a known.
The most important aspect is that this system is dual shutter, so even if other things come along with great IQ, I seriously doubt they will match up with this important feature for me.
Thanks everyone.
Now to start planning next year's winter escape … LOL!
– Marc
Thanks Tom, I truly appreciate such openly candid thoughts.
Yes, my biggest reluctance is because my S2P is reliable and delivers the image qualities I prefer. AFc is not something I would use whether improved on the S or not. I've never even used it on cameras that are great at it. GPS holds little to no interest.
A bit better ISO performance would be welcome, especially if it shows up in the ISO 400 and 800 area. Improved AFc may also indicate a slightly better AF response in AFs (?)
I checked used values on my S2P, and they show the same type of “drop off a cliff” prices that I enjoyed with the Hasselblad gear in past : -(. The difference then was that I used the gear for commercial work and was charging a digital capture day rate, and writing off the depreciation. A luxury that went bye-bye when I decided to retire.
I do think the $5K promo offer has a time limit. Whether they'd repeat it, or prolong it would depend on whether it is designed to deplete inventory in anticipation of the new CMOS S (type-?).
The notion to wait has always been a good idea in these “digital days” … the primary value of the S2P is in the using, and how much it will depreciate before hitting the lowest price plateau can be that far from where it is now. If they dropped to $5K, heck I'd get another one … LOL!
The only hope I hold out for a CMOS S is that it wouldn't have to accomidate the flange to sensor distances that the M(240) had to deal with, and the resulting weaker IR filter.
Thanks again.
– Marc
Oh Jack, I'd never trade the S2P in on this deal … I think Leica will take almost anything:
As part of its centennial celebrations, “100 Years of Leica Photography,” Leica Camera is pleased to offer the S-System Trade Up Program effective April 1, 2014 through June 30, 2014. Through this program, customers can trade in any SLR camera or medium format camera (film or digital) towards the purchase of a new Leica S (Typ 006) digital medium format camera and receive a $5,000 instant credit. Please note that only one instant credit can be applied to each new Leica S (Typ 006) purchase.
If I sell the S2P it'll be privately because it is actually a bit newer than the purchase date indicates since Leica replaced it when the sensor cracked on the previous one. For most of its' existence, this camera shared duties with a Hasselblad H4D/60, and I'm a very deliberate type of shooter, so the shot count is pretty low … making it a very nice camera for someone looking to get into the S system.
Bob, thanks for sharing your thoughts. My experiences mirror yours in that not much else satisfies … and now this is the only CCD camera I have other than the M Monochrome which is a camera unto itself, and does all those low light shots which I prefer in B&W anyway.
Like you, I take my mobile lighting kit (Profoto 600B) and use the CS lenses to great benefit. Often in low light, but as much as in bright ambient that usually spells the end of a shoot rather than a new creative opportunity. Profoto AIR actually syncs to 1/1000, and I cannot tell you how useful that has been at times.
I've saddled myself with an array of gear that suddenly has far less meaning after making the decision to phase out the “for pay” work, especially weddings which has become a jinky-winky business anyway (besides, I'm getting to old for that sort of thing anyway).
I'm also now way over equipped in my studio and have a ton of pro lighting gear like Profoto D4-2400R, Hensel Porty 1200L generators that are justing there. I think I have more modifiers than B&H … LOL!
Maybe the better question is where the heck do I wholesale off all this stuff?
Still thinking, where there is a will, there is a way.
– Marc
P.S., the Dunedin suggestion is a good one : -)
Could be either … if I sell some other stuff, I can keep the S2P … if not, I fear the S2P will not garner what it is really worth on the used market.
Actually. $15K would buy a few very nice trips to use the S2P … which is the real competition against doing this.
In fact, I could spend the next winter in the Tropics, instead of huddling in the house here in Michigan.
What a brutal winter this has been.
– Marc
Paratom;6080 wrote: could it be that optimizing DR for a certain sensor means that there will be less “in between” tonal graduations. I heard somewhere else that there is often a compromise between optimizing a sensor and software for high ISO low noise and DR for the price getting worse color.
I dont know if it is true.Not sure what it is … however, like many other photographers, more than any other CMOS based 35mm DSLRs, I still prize the files from the Sony A900 which isn't exactly known for its' higher ISO performance. Even the A99 that replaced it with higher ISO performance lacks in comparison to the presence of A900 files. This seems to at least partially verify your speculations.
Also, the D3X I replaced with the A900 used the same Sony 24 meg sensor, but was optimized for a different S curve that resulted in much flatter files and anemic color tonality and separation, less intense shadows and a bit more DR in the highlights. As a wedding photographer, I hated that camera for all the post work it caused me … and no presets solved it due to different lighting situations.
The moral may be that if you are getting great images with what you use and how you shoot, do not assume the next thing will be better. A newer camera/sensor may deliver better files in certain situations (ISO), but not equal what you already have in other situations.
IMHO, MF digital backs are a different gestalt. Most are optimized at ISO-50 and get dicey at 400 … it would seem that operating with-in those narrow boundaries it would be easier to control DR and color fidelity (?)
Personally, I need to see a lot more real world evidence of how the CMOS MF sensor works at the higher ISOs in all sorts of lighting situations. Other than LV, without ISO 1600 to 3200 that looks great, what would be the point?
– Marc
This is an interesting discussion, and one that may be subject to change if and when Leica moves to a higher ISO capable CMOS sensor in the S camera.
The S Vario is an enticing lens for its versatility and general usage. It would work in my lens line up because all of my S lenses (and one Hasselblad HC lens) are leaf-shutter. The Vario is not available in CS version, so the redundant prime focal lengths have their place both in lower light, for less DOF, and for use with supplemental lighting.
I'm a bit in Jack's camp regarding fast aperture MF zooms. I think we are willing to put up with trade-offs in 35mm zooms to gain speed … but would question whether we would on a S camera (?)
The less trade-offs in IQ, the bigger such a lens would become. Even the stalwart Canon/Nikon/Sony 24-70/2.8 workhorse Zooms are monsters relative to faster primes … and I doubt their level of optical performance would satisfy most S owner's criteria.
30mm @ f/3.5 is actually quite fast for MF …. and 90mm @ f/5.6 is almost mandatory if shooting any human subject with-in a 7 foot distance. (I base this on experience from using the Hasselblad HCD 35-90/4-5.6 on a H4D/40 … an excellent alternative for those that would like a CS Zoom BTW).
Only thing I do not like about the Leica Vario is that the front extends.
– Marc
Jack MacD;5993 wrote: Marc,
Two points:
The Sony sensor is so close to the size of the S I assume they asked Leica if they would buy some. I suspect that the sensor is actually 45mm not 44. ( Worse case Leica does a 2% crop ) So then the issue is frame ratio. Leica stays 3×2 and the others closer to 4×5. The fact that the competition has gone with a crop factor to a sensor size right on where the Leica S is shows that Leica was correct in selecting a sensor 50% larger than full frame. Going forward, Leica lenses are set for this size and the competition has lenses bigger than needed. Going forward, in a sense, Leica chose the right size sensor, and if all medium format cameras use the same sensor, we are back to the days of all Medium Format cameras use the same “film”. If this sensor is used by all makers, that gives huge economy of scale in a tiny market. Good for all of us. Then you choose a camera's form and handling, as well as lenses. Leica wins.The second point is do you and I need this? You are shooting strobes so higher ISO may not be necessary. A 14 stop dynamic range catches my attention. Do I need live view? For focus stacking it would be handy. I don't need such an upgrade, but need is different than want. Leica does need this sensor. If the completion has it, they will need to match it. A next Leica S is not necessary for existing owners, it's a requirement to attract new users to the system. However I would expect the old sensor to be sold too. Hey, one can still buy the S2 now.
I traditionally skip to every other model improvements. I expect I will go for this depending on price. In the meantime, I buy desired lenses. I sure hope the price isn't as much as the Phase price!
Jack
All good points Jack.
We have to remember that Hasselblad and Phase One/Leaf now have one CMOS model and many other CCD backs. I doubt multiple models is a luxury Leica will have … except maybe a transitionary phase of existing stock CCD S-Type cameras. So the risk is greater.
It'll be interesting for Leica to watch and learn from Hasselblad and Phase One's experiences with CMOS sales. I suspect that the H5D/40 1.3X crop CCD camera will go bye-bye if their CMOS 50c outsells the 40 (which I strongly believe it will based on how the H5D/40 is used). What remains to be seen is the Hasselblad 50c Multi-Shot version they have hinted at. It may well be that the CMOS 50c and its' Multi-Shot version will become the main MFD backs from Hasselblad in future, with 1.1X CCD backs fading out.
However, in the rush of technology, I think we have to “be careful what we wish for.”
The current S2/S2P/S cameras are sublime tools capable of incredible imagery and subtile nuance. As many S owners have mentioned, the files have a remarkable resemblance and synergy with those from the M9 in terms of sheer presence and impact. Personally, I've been pretty open about my disappointment in the M240 files in that regard … and I am not alone in that assessment.
A few suspicions: As some cameras have increase their dynamic range, processing has become more and more challenging. The files tend to be flat, and there are so many interdependent aspects that are affected as one mucks with contrast and various other techniques in post, I honestly wonder if it is worth it for the few shots where dynamic range is so important?
It sometimes feels like the tail is wagging the dog. DR a nice claim to make, but is it really worth all the trouble on 98% of the remaining shots where it is a non-issue? BTW, this is the reason I sold my Nikon D3X and moved to a Sony A900. I also took note of this when using the Sony A7R and M lenses … at normal ISOs, the M9 files have way more presence and impact. Resolution isn't everything.
Anyway, I'm sure Leica will go CMOS, and probably with Cmosis if they can pull it off. I wouldn't mind a good ISO 3200 from an S and 6400 in a pinch … and would hope for an improved AF solution … then I could dump all my 35mm DSLR/SLT stuff.
– Marc
50 meg 1.3X crop frame MFD is now a reality. H and P1 have announced it. Others are sure to follow.
Personally, I'm firmly in the CCD camp, and really not all that interested in going beyond 40 meg.
It would be great if Leica were to produce a higher meg S camera for those that actually need it, while maintaining a more “usable” S camera like the S2/S.
IMO, a CMOS S camera wouldn't necessarily suffer from the same color issues that the M240 has exhibited because it wouldn't have to deal with wide angle lenses so close to the sensor.
However, I've yet to see a CMOS camera from anyone that exhibits a distinctive look and feel in the initial files … like the S2/S and M9 do. While it can be argued that this leaves it up to artistic interpretation, it then requires a degree from MIT and knowledge of color therory beyond the scope of most photographers. Simplicity does have its merits when working in post in the same valued manner it does with camera operations.
What I am far more interested in over yet another expensive S camera body, is more refinements of the one I've already invested in.
It'd be far more valuable IF Leica were to issue firmware that improved the higher ISO capabilities of the S2/S cameras. In past, Hasselblad did exactly that. They issued firmware that increased the sensitivity of existing H cameras a full stop. So the H3D/31 went from a top ISO of 800 to 1600 … which made 800 like 400 and 400 like 200 in IQ.
These are VERY expensive cameras, and the growing crop of far less expensive high res smaller formats are breathing down the MFD category's back. While it is a bit easier to jettison a $2,500/$3,500 camera for the next generation, it is a monumental financial task to do so with cameras costing 10X as much. IMO, demonstrating on-going value with your existing MFD camera should be an integral part of the ownership equation. It keeps owners in your camp and less likely to bail for alternative choices.
– Marc
Thank you!
Looks like adding the Elpro doesn't take anything away from the S180, and allows closer work than possible without it.
– Marc
Send it back.
IMO, you should NOT be worried about anything for $11,000.
Personally, if buying this lens used, it'd still be very expensive and I would not buy one with a bubble myself … I'd look for another one.
– Marc
