Discussion Forum Leica S System S2 Status update: long exposures, slow readouts
  • February 8, 2012 at 3:35 pm #1928
    Deus_Ex_Mamiya

    Hi,

    I’ve seen reference several times to plans/hopes to address both these issues. What is the current status regarding
    (1) the longest exposure time possible on B? [and why isn’t it arbitary/unlimited, as it is in the Pentax 645D with an almost identical sensor?];
    (2) slowing down the readout speed in order to reduce readout noise? (and hence improve S/N especially at high ISO)

    Thanks for any info,
    Ray

  • February 8, 2012 at 10:40 pm #1930
    David Farkas

    Deus_Ex_Mamiya;1781 wrote: Hi,

    I’ve seen reference several times to plans/hopes to address both these issues. What is the current status regarding
    (1) the longest exposure time possible on B? [and why isn’t it arbitary/unlimited, as it is in the Pentax 645D with an almost identical sensor?];
    (2) slowing down the readout speed in order to reduce readout noise? (and hence improve S/N especially at high ISO)

    Thanks for any info,
    Ray

    Ray,

    The S2’s current maximum exposure time is 126 seconds. When the camera first was released, the maximum time was 32 seconds.

    There are two methods of getting long exposures: 1) press and hold the button in B, or 2) press the rear thumb dial in to get a selectable scale (pictured below). I vastly prefer this way over the “press the button and watch the seconds count up on the OLED” method.

    The reason for limiting the exposure time is Leica’s approach to quality standards. They are hesitant to allow users the option of something that would produce less-than-optimal results. I’d expect that the max exposure time will be increased with subsequent firmware updates.

    The slower frequency readout has been a big item on my personal wish list for the S2. It may happen in the future, but given the impression I got from my last conversation with the S2 product managers, there are many other priorities for firmware development right now. I agree that high quality images at higher ISO or longer exposures should be a top priority, but whether Leica feels it is remains to be seen.

    I’m confident that Leica will continue to roll out more firmware updates this year. We’ll just have to wait and see what they chose to be addressed in those updates.

    I will certainly pass the request on to Leica as I have been doing since the camera launched.

    David Farkas
    Red Dot Forum
    Leica Store Miami
  • February 9, 2012 at 10:59 am #1932
    Deus_Ex_Mamiya

    Hi David,

    Thanks for your detailed reply.

    David Farkas;1783 wrote:
    The reason for limiting the exposure time is Leica’s approach to quality standards. They are hesitant to allow users the option of something that would produce less-than-optimal results.

    AAAAAAGGGHH!!! What is it with these “nanny-state” manufacturer attitudes to what is permissable in photography?! Hasselblad are just as bad as Leica. Let ME, the CUSTOMER, the PHOTOGRAPHER, the ARTIST, be the judge of what is optimal or not! 😡 Leica, stop f*cking constraining us with YOUR ideals of quality! Unfetter the long exposure times!

    David, you sell a lot of Leica gear, so you have weight. If you ever get to meet a Leica head honcho in person, slap them repeatedly in the face until they admit how WRONG they are on this. I mean it.

    For heaven’s sake, what’s next? You’re about to take a shot when the camera screen lights up with the message “My gravity sensors indicate that you are trying to shoot handheld at 1/15 second. This will probably cause camera shake and impair image quality. Leica Camera AG does not permit this. The camera will now power down in 3 seconds…2…1…”.

    David Farkas;1783 wrote:
    I will certainly pass the request on to Leica as I have been doing since the camera launched.

    Good man! Keep the pressure on them.

    Ray

  • February 9, 2012 at 6:11 pm #1933
    Al Tanabe

    Deus_Ex_Mamiya;1785 wrote: Hi David,

    Thanks for your detailed reply.

    AAAAAAGGGHH!!! What is it with these “nanny-state” manufacturer attitudes to what is permissable in photography?! Hasselblad are just as bad as Leica. Let ME, the CUSTOMER, the PHOTOGRAPHER, the ARTIST, be the judge of what is optimal or not! 😡 Leica, stop f*cking constraining us with YOUR ideals of quality! Unfetter the long exposure times!

    Ray

    Ray,
    All manufacturers have absolute limits on long exposures, some for quality reasons and mainly for design/operational reasons. Digital sensors generate heat when the current passes through it, heat generates noise, excessive heat destroys sensors. The ability for a sensor to dissipate the heat during exposure presents a challenge to all manufacturers, both Nikon and Canon experienced this with the first DSLR video application.

    I think the old Phase P30+ and P45+ allows 60 min exposures, the newer IQ backs only go to 120 seconds. It seems that all manufacturers have limitations when it comes to long exposures, you will need to go to film to have total control over long exposures. And if you do go to film, do not forget to compensate for the reciprocity for long exposures for each emulsion.

    -Al

  • February 10, 2012 at 3:28 pm #1938
    Roger

    David

    I am a bit confused about the bulb settings. When I take a long exposure I generally am trying to keep my ISO at 160 or 320 to maintain maximum DR and color saturation . Your example implies that setting on B and using ISO 160 limits exposure to16 sec ? And that to get to 125 I would have to increase ISO .

  • February 10, 2012 at 3:54 pm #1940
    David Farkas

    Roger;1791 wrote: David

    I am a bit confused about the bulb settings. When I take a long exposure I generally am trying to keep my ISO at 160 or 320 to maintain maximum DR and color saturation . Your example implies that setting on B and using ISO 160 limits exposure to16 sec ? And that to get to 125 I would have to increase ISO .

    Roger,

    In this picture, the exposure time is set to 16 seconds, but I have the option of going to 125 sec. If I set the camera to ISO 320 the maximum exposure time would be 60 sec. And 125 would be grayed out.

    What I like about this interface is that you can select the time easily without having to press the button and wait for the seconds to count up before releasing to end the exposure. It essentially extends the functionality of the shutter speed dial into the long exposure range.

    David Farkas
    Red Dot Forum
    Leica Store Miami
  • February 10, 2012 at 8:11 pm #1944
    Al Tanabe

    Roger,
    As you increase the ISO, the longer exposure times will gray out and not be able to be selected.

    -Al

  • February 11, 2012 at 2:27 am #1948
    Mark Gowin

    The longest possible exposure is at ISO 160. As the ISO increases, the maximum exposure time decreases. I don’t think there is a way to get more light into sensor than 125 seconds at ISO 160 or the equivalent combination if time and ISO rating. Also, the resulting images look pretty much the same as far as noise goes – regardless whether it is long exposure/low ISO OR short exposure/high ISO. I discovered this while trying to photograph fireflies in the dark.:)

  • February 11, 2012 at 3:11 pm #1949
    Roger

    David

    Thanks this makes perfect sense .

    Mark ..still laughing about photographing fire flies

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.