Stefan Daniel of Leica has posted some official information today via L-Camera-Forum:
Official Statement by Leica – Leica M9 / SD Card Compatibility
Feel free to discuss your own findings here.
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiMy Sandisk 8gb Extreme class 10 SD card died in camera. I think the process was – review image, zoom image (red light flashing), then accidentally hit the shutter button – not acquiring an image. Then the card was dead – I could take another image but it would not record. The card could not be read in either Mac or PC. Could not even format the card in either platform.
Sandisk replaced the card.
Never had a single problem! I have a San Disk Extreme HD Video 8gb card. It is a 20mb/s card. Not so fast, perhaps, but it seems to work fine for me. I think I will stick with it until the problems are all sorted…
Guess I’ll chip in as well.
Been fine using Transcend Class 10 8GB and 16GB SDHC cards. On the first version of M9 firmware, I had a compatibility issue (no card found) when using the Transcend Class 6 8GB*. These also work fine now.
* Thanks to Al for loaning me some of his extra SD cards when I was in Seattle and my brand new 8GBs were a no-go. You saved my soy bacon.
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiDavid,
Wasn’t that an issue with the read/write tab on the card?I use a mix of Sandisk and Lexar cards . In Sandisk I use the Ultra,extreme and new extreme pro in 8gb and 16gb formats .
I ve only had 2 card issues in about 75K captures across 8 different digital M s . In one case they were caused by weak batteries (it was really cold out and started with a partially charged battery ..shot half a dozen captures on continuous .) Bad write to the card ..ran out of juice before it completed .
The other was when I was sharing a card between my DMR (should have been called “the Corrupter” ) and the M8 .
I am sure based on the current reports that the write logic is a problem . The cards are clearly capable of handling high volume writing with other cameras including the S2.
But I also think that having a standard operating procedure thats consistent and minimizes anything required of the M9 to write a good file helps. I never start with anything other than a fully charged battery and a fresh formatted card. I always check both as I start out the door and reformat the card just to be sure . I never delete anything while shooting in the camera ..in fact I never delete in the camera on the M9 . I don t shoot on continuous.
Since I use two cameras I wear out before the batteries .. how many images per hour can you shoot while actually looking at the subject? When I get beyond 100 /hour I get less rather than more selects . When I shoot for more than 2 hours without a break …I get less . So when I have my Solo Americano I change the cards and batteries . When I take a coffee break I review all the images so that I pick up any issues sooner rather than later. I check my histogram after every set of 6-12 images .
Exactly how did that guy get a set of “null files “ on his M9 (over on LUF) if he was looking at his histogram.
I ve only had to throw away one card ..ever ! Used to have corrupt cards every other week with the DMR until I started to clean the battery connections and the batteries frequently and never ever shoot more than 100 on a card/battery . But I never lost any images because the images were recoverable with I think Image Rescue software . Then a reformat in the laptop and the card was good to go.
I am sure they have some bad logic in the M9 software ..this is a little like the epson -apple issues . When Sandisk changes ..Leica has to change ..not the otherway around.
Want to be completely sure buy the sandisk ultra 16gb at Costco …works fine in the M9 ,cheap . Only downside is slow transfer to your MacBook.
Atanabe;473 wrote: David,
Wasn’t that an issue with the read/write tab on the card?No, Al, I had brought 3 or 4 brand new 8GB SDHC cards (in packaging) to Seattle. The M9 was being shipped to my hotel by Leica (it was Oct 09, so M9s weren’t really out there yet). When I was in Germany testing a prototype M9 for my article, I had used a variety of SD cards (SanDisk and Transcend) with zero issues. In fact, I had used 8GB Class 6 Trascends while over there.
But, the new 8GB Class 6 cards that I brought with me were from a different and newer batch, which, when paired with the final release version of M9 firmware, proved to be incompatible. The camera told me there was no card loaded. When I tried the same make and model, but in a 4GB or 16GB size upon my return home, there was no problem. So, I just had really bad luck. After a subsequent firmware update for the M9, those exact same cards worked just fine, so the issue was definitely on the Leica end of the equation.
As I said previously, though, I have personally had no issues whatsoever with SD cards corrupting or going bad in the M9 to date.
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiRoger;482 wrote: I use a mix of Sandisk and Lexar cards . In Sandisk I use the Ultra,extreme and new extreme pro in 8gb and 16gb formats .
I ve only had 2 card issues in about 75K captures across 8 different digital M s . In one case they were caused by weak batteries (it was really cold out and started with a partially charged battery ..shot half a dozen captures on continuous .) Bad write to the card ..ran out of juice before it completed .
The other was when I was sharing a card between my DMR (should have been called “the Corrupter” ) and the M8 .
I am sure based on the current reports that the write logic is a problem . The cards are clearly capable of handling high volume writing with other cameras including the S2.
But I also think that having a standard operating procedure thats consistent and minimizes anything required of the M9 to write a good file helps. I never start with anything other than a fully charged battery and a fresh formatted card. I always check both as I start out the door and reformat the card just to be sure . I never delete anything while shooting in the camera ..in fact I never delete in the camera on the M9 . I don t shoot on continuous.
Since I use two cameras I wear out before the batteries .. how many images per hour can you shoot while actually looking at the subject? When I get beyond 100 /hour I get less rather than more selects . When I shoot for more than 2 hours without a break …I get less . So when I have my Solo Americano I change the cards and batteries . When I take a coffee break I review all the images so that I pick up any issues sooner rather than later. I check my histogram after every set of 6-12 images .
Exactly how did that guy get a set of “null files “ on his M9 (over on LUF) if he was looking at his histogram.
I ve only had to throw away one card ..ever ! Used to have corrupt cards every other week with the DMR until I started to clean the battery connections and the batteries frequently and never ever shoot more than 100 on a card/battery . But I never lost any images because the images were recoverable with I think Image Rescue software . Then a reformat in the laptop and the card was good to go.
I am sure they have some bad logic in the M9 software ..this is a little like the epson -apple issues . When Sandisk changes ..Leica has to change ..not the otherway around.
Want to be completely sure buy the sandisk ultra 16gb at Costco …works fine in the M9 ,cheap . Only downside is slow transfer to your MacBook.
Roger,
This is all good advice, especially using fresh, fully-charged batteries and empty, formatted cards. Mixing cards between cameras is a big no-no as is shooting on low batteries. The only issues I usually experience with my M9 are related to almost-dead batteries. A change to a fresh one fixes all ills.
I’m surprised you had issues with your DMR. The DMR had/has its fair amount of quirkiness if those contacts are dirty or not making good contact. The battery tended to run out of juice pretty quickly and cause the camera to act very strange when it gets too low. But, I can’t ever recall a situation where I lost images on a card, or that the camera made the SD card unusable.
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store Miamidavid
I think everything on the DMR was due to faulty electrical . The contacts once completely cleaned helped a lot but the batteries were starting to age and depending on the usage (a lot of captures in a short period of time ) would sometimes overwhelm the battery power.
I could see the files ..I would get images then null files then the folder wouldn t close properly leaving the header record corrupt. So I could recover most of the files and I never lost but a few .
Roger
The latest from Leica’s Facebook page:
Leica Camera has recently become aware of customers experiencing compatibility issues related to select types of new memory cards when used in the Leica M9. The misbehavior occurs in very limited cases (< 0.1% of total No. of sold M9/M9-P), but because it is associated with the loss of images, we want to point out the potential risk for our customers. Leica's focus remains first and foremost providing an uncompromised customer experience; therefore we are investigating with highest priority in finding the root cause for this error.
With this information, we would like to give you the latest information on the status. Please read this information carefully to ensure a save photography workflow:
The facts from today’s point of view are:
- Customers report that the camera stops working if shooting serial exposures and view images while others are still in the camera buffer.
- If the fault occurred once, the probability that it happens again with the same SD-Card is very high.
- Images can be lost in case of this malfunction and the card can be damaged/destroyed.
- There are no indications that it is a firmware bug in the latest firmware 1.162, so there is no reason to update to an elderly firmware version.
- The M9 is in general compatible with all SDHC cards, but most failure reports are related to San Disk SDHC cards.
Until the solution is found, what can be done if this malfunction occurs?
- If possible, please use cards that worked well in the past, avoid reformatting them, neither in the camera, nor in a PC or Mac.
- If you are forced to use new cards: Use them carefully: try to avoid browsing through the images on the screen while the red LED is blinking.
- In case of malfunction, please stop using the card. If images are lost, they might me recoverable using a special software. Please contact Leica Customer Service for assistance, if needed.
We also started a structured query in the Leica User Forum to get a better overview about the customer’s experience. The query can be found here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-sd-card-issues/194354-leica-m9-sd-cards-data-collection.html.
For information about this on the Leica website, visit: http://en.leica-camera.com/news/news/1/8250.html
As soon as we have news on this topic, we will let you know.
Leica Camera AG
Stefan Daniel, Director Product Management Photo
Jesko von Oeynhausen, Product Manager Leica M-SystemDavid Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiInteresting that they recommend not reformatting cards, either in camera or computer. I typically reformat in camera on a regular basis.
It sounds like they are mostly saying, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”. Sound advice…
No, they read David’s post on use once – then discard.
Atanabe;507 wrote: No, they read David’s post on use once – then discard.
Must be…. 🙂
Although I prefer the term “archive” to “discard”
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiI got a bunch of cigar boxes for “archives” I guess. If you get enough of them you can have a poker game, “I’ll see your 4 gig and raise you 16 . . .”:cool:
This is a follow up to retrieval when the SD card fails with the M9 w/ 1.62 firmware.
I made images last August 28th. I was using Transcend SDHC 16 gig card in a Leica M9; it was producing only DNG files which were about 37meg each.
I made a number of images in the morning and had reviewed several near noon. I then made more images in the afternoon with a few successful reviews on the camera’s screen. Near the late afternoon, I made an image and decided to review it and the image correctly came up but it was listed as 1 of 1 image. All the other images were missing. I made an immediate second image, and it was also listed as 1 or 1 image with the immediate previously image having disappeared as well as the day’s entire number of images missing in the review function within the camera.
I was traveling by bicycle in the middle of Illinois and I only had a netbook. The netbook stated that the SD card required formatting. I did not format the card. I tried several different downloadable recover softwares but none were able to even access the card as the label volume was not readable. Plus I was on the road, needing to carry on and couldn’t be fiddling with software ‘play’ on the road…The next day I got a message from Transcend saying that some of the their HC cards were failing…and by looking at the details on the Leica forum you can see more iterations of these failures.
I tried a number of software when I returned home. None worked. I sent the card to a recovery agency in Florida (L Technology). They broke apart the card (I presume to remove/check the lock on the card—which I never used and do not ever use on my cards). They were unable to produce any recovered files. I was able to place the card in two different card readers and the computer will recognize that the volume is not readable.
So I searched around and found Memofix, a Canadian company. They received my card at the end of Sept and returned it to me last week (Oct 28, 2011) with 195 complete images and 17 damaged images. They were able indeed to retrieve a host of images. I am completely satisfied that they accomplished this. They were courteous and informative. I asked the rep, Bob, what did they have to do? His reply:
As to your question of the work done let me explain in brief as it is the techs that do this job and I am a step removed. Basically, we removed your memory chip from the circuit board and read the chip. This work is not the big challenge. The challenge is figuring out the data translation. Simply put, there is more memory on these chips than advertised because the manufacturers alternate where data is written to so it is not written in the same spot all the time. They do this to prolong the life of these devices. Different manufacturers have different schemes (or algorithms) on how these patterns work. So, the big challenge in these cases is to figure this info out. It takes skill, research and trial and error to find the closest pattern possible. Think of it as a large puzzle with the image being mainly one color. As you can see, not easy and very time consuming. With many memory devices now larger in capacity, we are seeing them comprised of multiple chips. In these cases, the complexity of the recovery goes up by many factors of magnitude.
So that’s my story. I realize that Leica is about to produce a new firmware to address this. But I thought that perhaps there may be other episodes of different kind of failures that this place may be able to help any and all of us. I have no financial interest in this company other than I paid them a lot of money. I would easily ask them for help again. (that is also why I posted this in two places)
Z
(travel images: picasaweb.google.com/ajz2020)Software that failed:
Stellar Phoenix
Undeleter
Odboso PhotoRetrieval
CardRecovery (SanDisk Rescue Pro)
RecoverPlusPro (Arcksoft)
iCare Data RecoveryCompany attempted but failed rescue:
LC Technology, LC Technology International Inc.
They took the SD card apart but were unable to retrieve anything; they did not reformat or harm the card other than splitting it physically apart.Successful company was Memofix,
Memofix Hitech Services Inc. – Data Recovery, Drive Repairs, Service Logistics
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