My understanding is that the CS lenses have a built-in leaf shutter that allows 1/500 flash sync, but what are the other speeds available to the leaf shutter? Can it do the full range of speeds slower than 1/500? …like 1/4 or 1/8 etc? Thanks for any info
Michael Moss;1603 wrote: My understanding is that the CS lenses have a built-in leaf shutter that allows 1/500 flash sync, but what are the other speeds available to the leaf shutter? Can it do the full range of speeds slower than 1/500? …like 1/4 or 1/8 etc? Thanks for any info
Michael,
The leaf shutter in the CS lenses can operate at the full range of shutter speeds up to 1/500th. At any speed higher than a 1/500th the camera will automatically switch to the focal plane shutter. To answer your question more directly, yes, the leaf shutter will operate at slower speeds like 1/4.
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiHi Dave, thanks very much
My next question would be to ask if there are any possible advantages for using the leaf shutter vs. the focal plane shutter at slower shutter speeds? Would the leaf shutter be a better choice when working with longer available light exposures or is the focal plane shutter soft enough that it shouldn’t cause any vibration problems? Thanks again
Hi Michael – I have a Pentax 67 and leaf shutter lens, and I guess the Leica may have the same sequence of actions. Cock the leaf shutter. Press camera shutter button. Mirror rises. Focal plane shutter first curtain opens. Leaf shutter clicks. Focal plane shutter second curtain closes. Mirror comes down. Lots of movement going on, unlikely the leaf shutter has any advantage other than flash sync. It would be cool if the leaf shutter exposure could be delayed.
ahh..it looks like the answer has already been posted in another thread:
http://www.reddotforum.com/showthread.php/340-is-the-120-CS-lens-worth-the-upgrade-to-shoot-macro?p=1311&viewfull=1#post1311Doug;1606 wrote: Hi Michael – I have a Pentax 67 and leaf shutter lens, and I guess the Leica may have the same sequence of actions. Cock the leaf shutter. Press camera shutter button. Mirror rises. Focal plane shutter first curtain opens. Leaf shutter clicks. Focal plane shutter second curtain closes. Mirror comes down. Lots of movement going on, unlikely the leaf shutter has any advantage other than flash sync.
Hi Doug, thanks
If I understand correctly, the vibration caused by the mirror will be the same regardless of whether the focal plane shutter or the leaf shutter is used. I’m wondering if the central shutter might have an advantage when shooting in mirror-up? Also, I’m wondering if the central shutter might have an advantage for working with future versions of the S system that might have an advanced live-view?
Nice link, Michael, and it’s good to see the sequence is the same. Note that despite mirror up, the focal plane shutter still does its thing, opening and closing. Any slight jiggle from the focal plane shutter opening could be negated by a delay in the release of the leaf shutter… if possible?
Your assumptions are correct. According to Stephan Schulz (S2 product manager), there is no vibration advantage when using CS lenses as the focal plane shutter must fire immediately before the leaf shutter. The only advantage of the CS lenses is for faster flash sync speed, which in itself, is only an advantage when shooting with studio strobes outside. In studio, there is little advantage.
Having shot many slower shutter speed shots, the focal plane shutter of the S2 is very soft and I have not had any issues when using any of the Leica S lenses. When using the converted 400mm R lens, there are some speeds which do show movement (1/15, 1/8 for example).
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiDavid Farkas;1610 wrote: The only advantage of the CS lenses is for faster flash sync speed, which in itself, is only an advantage when shooting with studio strobes outside. In studio, there is little advantage.
Hi,
I mostly shoot outside, but do use a portable flash on my Nikon for taking casual snaps of my family etc. I don´t know much about using flash, and just bounce the light off some wall when taking pictures indoors. My (very limited..) experience is that a shutter speed of 1/250 gives a greater number of keepers, and that 1/125 and lower often gives motion blure. Hence, I was thinking that the CS would be nice on the zoom for this kind of shooting?
Christopher
David Farkas;1610 wrote: According to Stephan Schulz (S2 product manager), there is no vibration advantage when using CS lenses as the focal plane shutter must fire immediately before the leaf shutter. The only advantage of the CS lenses is for faster flash sync speed
The only advantage of the CS lenses right now is the faster sync speed and that definitely makes perfect sense.
This is purely speculation, but my understanding from reading interviews with Kaufmann (and other folks at Leica) is that future versions of the S system may be equipped with an advanced live view. If this proves to be correct, then I’m assuming the focal plane shutter would be open for live view. If so, then could it also be possible that the central shutter may have an advantage for shooting longer exposure times since leaf shutters usually are known to create less vibrations than focal plane shutters?
Right now, the CS lenses only have an advantage for flash sync, but I’m wondering if the leaf shutter could also have an advantage when shooting long exposures in future versions of the S that may come with an advanced live view?
HCHeyerdahl;1615 wrote: Hi,
I mostly shoot outside, but do use a portable flash on my Nikon for taking casual snaps of my family etc. I don´t know much about using flash, and just bounce the light off some wall when taking pictures indoors. My (very limited..) experience is that a shutter speed of 1/250 gives a greater number of keepers, and that 1/125 and lower often gives motion blure. Hence, I was thinking that the CS would be nice on the zoom for this kind of shooting?
Christopher
Christopher,
If you are using the Leica SF58 on the S2 then you can shoot at any shutter speed up to 1/4000th. The faster sync speed on the CS lenses is more for battery-operated, high-powered studio strobe units like a Profoto B3, Hensel Porty, Broncolor Mobil, Elinchrom Ranger, etc. These units offer around 1200 Ws on average which is about 10-12 times more powerful than a hot shoe mounted flash like an SF58, 580 EX or SB900. And, unlike a dedicated TTL flash, these battery-powered studio strobes have no two-way communication with the camera’s metering system and are incapable of high speed focal plane sync. So, a faster sync can be useful when trying to overpower the sun or shoot with flash fill at more open apertures in sunlight.
Hope this clarifies.
David Farkas
Red Dot Forum
Leica Store MiamiIt appears that the focal plane shutter is well-dampened for longer shutter speeds, but my experience has always been best with leaf shutters for long exposures. Basically, I’m wondering if anyone online or elsewhere has ever done a test with an S2 mounted on a tripod and shot at multiple long exposure times to see if vibrations start to creep in at any particular shutter speeds? If it did, I wouldn’t hold that against the camera because every focal plane shutter I’ve ever used has had vibrations show up at certain speeds. On the other hand, if there really are no problems then I’d be very impressed and happy about it. 🙂
This is just speculation, but I’ve read some interviews online with Kaufmann and others at Leica that mention the possibility of CMOS and/or a future live-view with for the S2. If live-view were to become a reality, then is it possible that the central shutter of the CS lens could have an advantage for long exposures since the mirror would already be up and the focal plane shutter would already be open for the live view? Basically, could live-view switch the normal firing sequence around so that a leaf shutter could gain a potential advantage?
Just as a counter, I have noticed rather real differences between the S2 lenses on a good tripod with the mirror pre-released and with it not pre-released. If you are using a tripod anyway, it is best practice to use the mirror pre-release. I have noticed it most on the 120mm lens at slow speeds (1s to 1/30th etc), but in general I would say better to use pre-release if you can. With respect to the focal plane vs. CS lenses, I only have the focal plane lenses so I cannot comment. If the focal plane shutter has to fire anyway, I would say that the CS lenses only make sense if you shoot a lot of strobe work.
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